massive aneurism

[*Lifeguard*]

I am investigating circumstances surrounding the 2006 sudden and unexpected death of a 63 year old woman at my workplace. It has never been reported to the Coroner's Office, the safety authority or even the company safety committee. She was a healthy woman, with no history of any medical conditions. She came to work with an unrelieved headache, which eventually was reported to her employer as a severe headache. Hours later, she had a massive aneurism.

Hours before her collapse and subsequent death, she had reported a severe headache to her Supervisor. Would it be reasonable to conclude that if this patient had early medical intervention, that she may have survived? How early would be considered an early medical intervention?

What would some of the medical interventions be? What could ALS do to stabilize this patient?

[Lone Star]

Having survived my own 'face to face' with a giant cerebral ANEURYSM, I can tell you that in most cases, the headache will be the only (and last) symptom you'll ever get.

We know that the aneurysm is an abnormal swelling and subsequent thinning of the arterial wall, until it reaches the point that it 'balloons out' into the surrounding tissue. If you're lucky (like I was), the body will try to encapsulate it in calcium to hold it from rupturing.

In the case of cerebral aneurysms, there's no place for the brain matter that has been 'pushed aside'to go. With the increasing size of the aneurysm,(or the increased blood volume) in the skull, the brain becomes compressed to the point that it starts to die.

Most aneurysms aren't found until they've ruptured. Since they affect the arteries, theres usually very little that can be done to save them.

My aneurysm was in the right posterior communicating artery where it joins the Circle of Willis. It was a 'berry aneurysm' that measured approximately 3cm X 3cm. The doctors that treated me couldn't be sure if it was from trauma, or if it was from a congenital defect. At that point, I really didn't care what the etiology of it was!

If her aneurysm was only leaking, and that's what was causing the headaches; there might have been something that could have been done in time to possibly save her life. If the aneurysm had just ruptured, she only had several agonizing minutes to live.

I can tell you from personal experience, that the headaches I had that were caused by the aneurysm were some of the most excrutiating pain I've ever dealt with.

I actually overdosed on ibuprofin a couple times trying to get the pain down to a 'manageable level'. At one point, I actually ended up taking between 1200mg and 1600mg of ibuprofen.

After 18½ hours of surgery, the neurosurgeon told my parents that he didn't expect me to come off the table, but I had; and he didn't expect that I'd ever walk again.

51 weeks later, I was back 'on the job' in both EMS and the Fire Department.

[*Lifeguard*]

Great story. I find the Coroner`s excuses not to investigate the circumstances surrounding this ignored 2006 death is very crass. He informed the family that even a medical intervention hours before would not have helped the victim. What would ALS do to aid this patient

Having survived my own 'face to face' with a giant cerebral ANEURYSM, I can tell you that in most cases, the headache will be the only (and last) symptom you'll ever get.

We know that the aneurysm is an abnormal swelling and subsequent thinning of the arterial wall, until it reaches the point that it 'balloons out' into the surrounding tissue. If you're lucky (like I was), the body will try to encapsulate it in calcium to hold it from rupturing.

In the case of cerebral aneurysms, there's no place for the brain matter that has been 'pushed aside'to go. With the increasing size of the aneurysm,(or the increased blood volume) in the skull, the brain becomes compressed to the point that it starts to die.

Most aneurysms aren't found until they've ruptured. Since they affect the arteries, theres usually very little that can be done to save them.

My aneurysm was in the right posterior communicating artery where it joins the Circle of Willis. It was a 'berry aneurysm' that measured approximately 3cm X 3cm. The doctors that treated me couldn't be sure if it was from trauma, or if it was from a congenital defect. At that point, I really didn't care what the etiology of it was!

If her aneurysm was only leaking, and that's what was causing the headaches; there might have been something that could have been done in time to possibly save her life. If the aneurysm had just ruptured, she only had several agonizing minutes to live.

I can tell you from personal experience, that the headaches I had that were caused by the aneurysm were some of the most excrutiating pain I've ever dealt with.

I actually overdosed on ibuprofin a couple times trying to get the pain down to a 'manageable level'. At one point, I actually ended up taking between 1200mg and 1600mg of ibuprofen.

After 18½ hours of surgery, the neurosurgeon told my parents that he didn't expect me to come off the table, but I had; and he didn't expect that I'd ever walk again.

51 weeks later, I was back 'on the job' in both EMS and the Fire Department.

[tniuqs]

I am investigating circumstances surrounding the 2006 sudden and unexpected death of a 63 year old woman at my workplace.

It has never been reported to the Coroner's Office, the safety authority or even the company safety committee. She was a healthy woman, with no history of any medical conditions. She came to work with an unrelieved headache, which eventually was reported to her employer as a severe headache. Hours later, she had a massive aneurism.

Hours before her collapse and subsequent death, she had reported a severe headache to her Supervisor. Would it be reasonable to conclude that if this patient had early medical intervention, that she may have survived? How early would be considered an early medical intervention?

What would some of the medical interventions be? What could ALS do to stabilize this patient?

I hope that helps.

Edited February 1, 2010 by tniuqs

[AnthonyM83]

It has never been reported to the Coroner's Office, the safety authority or even the company safety committee. She was a healthy woman, with no history of any medical conditions. She came to work with an unrelieved headache, which eventually was reported to her employer as a severe headache. Hours later, she had a massive aneurism.

I'm trying to figure out what you're getting at.

What exactly was never reported to the Coroner's Office? That she had told someone about the headache?

Are you saying the death was never reported or that it wasn't made a Coroner's investigation case?

I don't know what "the safety authority" is and don't know what the company's safety committee handles.

Are you trying to find out if a supervisor was being negligent by not calling 911 when she told him of her headache?

If so, gotta be honest. If I wasn't in EMS and someone told me they had a headache, I wouldn't know what to do any better than the person telling me. In fact, I'd probably know less, since I rarely get headaches. Before I got into EMS, headache was never something I imagine one would call 911 for, so probably wouldn't encourage her to get medical attention.

[*Lifeguard*]

I'm trying to figure out what you're getting at.

What exactly was never reported to the Coroner's Office? That she had told someone about the headache?

Are you saying the death was never reported or that it wasn't made a Coroner's investigation case?

I don't know what "the safety authority" is and don't know what the company's safety committee handles.

Are you trying to find out if a supervisor was being negligent by not calling 911 when she told him of her headache?

If so, gotta be honest. If I wasn't in EMS and someone told me they had a headache, I wouldn't know what to do any better than the person telling me. In fact, I'd probably know less, since I rarely get headaches. Before I got into EMS, headache was never something I imagine one would call 911 for, so probably wouldn't encourage her to get medical attention.

There is a big difference between a headache and a severe, unrelieved headache. There is a big difference when a worker reports it to an employer. There was no First Aid Attendant on site. The victim was working alone, with no radio.

The sudden and unexpected death in the workplace was never reported to the Coroner's Office, as required:

Coroners Act

[sBC 2007] CHAPTER 15

Part 2 — Reporting Deaths

Deaths that must be reported by anyone

2 (1) A person must immediately report to a coroner or peace officer the facts and circumstances relating to the death of an adult or child who the person has reason to believe has died

(a) as a result of violence, accident, negligence, misconduct or malpractice,

( as a result of a self-inflicted illness or injury,

© suddenly and unexpectedly, when the person was apparently in good health and not under the care of a medical practitioner,

With regards to the employer's Duties, any injury or death must be reported to your State or Provincial Safety Authority:

In addition, when a worker reports a severe, unrelieved headache and requests medical aid, the employer has very serious Duties to ensure the safety of the worker.

General duties of employers

115

(1) Every employer must

(a) ensure the health and safety of

(i) all workers working for that employer, and

(ii) any other workers present at a workplace at which that employer's work is being carried out, and

( comply with this Part, the regulations and any applicable orders.

do everything that is reasonably practicable to establish and maintain a system or process that will ensure compliance with this Part and the regulations in respect of the workplace.

Part 3 Division 10 - Accident Reporting and Investigation

Immediate notice of certain accidents

172

(1) An employer must immediately notify the Board of the occurrence of any accident that

a) resulted in serious injury to or the death of a worker,

Incidents that must be investigated

173

(1) An employer must immediately undertake an investigation into the cause of any accident or other incident that

(a) is required to be reported by section 172,

( resulted in injury to a worker requiring medical treatment,

[Lone Star]

First off, were you an employee when this poor lady passed away on the job?

Second, it's been asked already; by what authority are you launching an investigation? What exactly is the PURPOSE of this investigation? By what authority are you entitled to exact punishment, confinement, or bring forth criminal charges?

Third, since the conditions of death were 'suspect' at best, wouldn't there have been an autopsy performed? With the conclusion and relevant facts and conditions being noted, wouldn't their findings be turned over to the Coroner's Office?

What do you hope to accomplish by reopening a 4 year old incident?

Have you considered the emotional ramifications of your actions?

An 'unrelieved headache' could simply be an example of where the meds are out of date, and have lost their efficacy, haven't had ample time to begin to block the pain receptors in the brain, or simply; the person didn't take the theraputic/reccommended dosage.

Remember, the woman WAS 63. The aneurysm MAY have been secondary to another cause that led to the woman's death.

Judging from the tone and timbre of your posts, I'm led to suspect that there may be more to your 'investigation' than meets the eye. It almost smacks of someone with an axe to grind; looking for someone to bear the blame, and ultimately be made to cough up some cash in a 'wrongful death/negligence suit'

What, if any, is your medical background?

[Just Plain Ruff]

I am looking at it this way. I think this person is a relative of this dead lady. I am probably wrong but this is very suspect.

Why 4 years after this womans death is this being investigated? Wouldn't it have been prudent to investigate this more recently than 4 years.

I smell something else too. This is a very respected site on the net, we have had this happen before with someone wanting to know info that we might be able to tell them. The last time I think it was a daughter or son of a victim and a time before it might have been similar.

I hope that this person just wants basic info and not info that they can take back and say "Hey see, even the professionals think that the supervisor acted badly" he he he he "I got em now"

Plus from a previous post from the OP, the woman reported it to her supervisor but was not forthcoming as to what the supervisor did.

I've had people report to me that they had a severe headache when they were working, did I send them home? nope, only if they wanted to go home. But people work with headaches every single day. To find her supervisor liable in her death by not sending her home then hey go for it. But if he sent her home she would have just died at home. At least someone found her.

Another thing, Did the supervisor say "you need to go to the doctor" or whatever, did this woman heed his advice and go or did she stay at work and ignore his advice

The OP has not answered the specific questions that have been asked of him/her. Which are what is your level of involvement in this. Why are you investigating this now instead of 4 years ago.

My ending thought is that this is involving a wrongful death lawsuit that is threatening to cost his company millions of dollars and he and his company are scrambling to find some fault other than their own if there is any fault to be given.

People die every day from these things, Lonestar is the exception and that is good. But people die from these things every single day and you know, sometimes it's just your time to go. EMS would have been only good enough to get her a ride to the ER and let them take it from there. A good medic with good differential diagnoses skills would possibly triage her to a stroke center but most would take her to her hospital of choice. NOt much more to do in the back of an ambulance unless other symptoms were present.

[*Lifeguard*]

I seem to be repeating myself. Maybe this is the wrong forum to request prehospital emergency care for an aneurism victim. The death was not reported to the Coroner or the safety authority, therefore, no autopsy was performed. I am only a PCP student, which heard of this ignored 2006 incident. These workers are mostly immigrant workers and do not speak English. They rarely report hazards or refuse unsafe work. I took the initiative to report it to the Coroner's Office. Our Coroner is now investigating this incident. However, he is not a Doctor, and may conclude that that nothing could have been done for a victim.

I am ensuring that the circumstances surrounding this ignored death are thoroughly investigated, in the hopes that similar deaths can be prevented in the future. My original question was: what advance protocols can be used in the streets to address this emergency? I did not think that this effort would be taken in such a sinister way.

First off, were you an employee when this poor lady passed away on the job?

Second, it's been asked already; by what authority are you launching an investigation? What exactly is the PURPOSE of this investigation? By what authority are you entitled to exact punishment, confinement, or bring forth criminal charges?

Third, since the conditions of death were 'suspect' at best, wouldn't there have been an autopsy performed? With the conclusion and relevant facts and conditions being noted, wouldn't their findings be turned over to the Coroner's Office?

What do you hope to accomplish by reopening a 4 year old incident?

Have you considered the emotional ramifications of your actions?

An 'unrelieved headache' could simply be an example of where the meds are out of date, and have lost their efficacy, haven't had ample time to begin to block the pain receptors in the brain, or simply; the person didn't take the theraputic/reccommended dosage.

Remember, the woman WAS 63. The aneurysm MAY have been secondary to another cause that led to the woman's death.

Judging from the tone and timbre of your posts, I'm led to suspect that there may be more to your 'investigation' than meets the eye. It almost smacks of someone with an axe to grind; looking for someone to bear the blame, and ultimately be made to cough up some cash in a 'wrongful death/negligence suit'

What, if any, is your medical background?

[HERBIE1]

I seem to be repeating myself. Maybe this is the wrong forum to request prehospital emergency care for an aneurism victim. The death was not reported to the Coroner or the safety authority, therefore, no autopsy was performed. I am only a PCP student, which heard of this ignored 2006 incident. These workers are mostly immigrant workers and do not speak English. They rarely report hazards or refuse unsafe work. I took the initiative to report it to the Coroner's Office. Our Coroner is now investigating this incident. However, he is not a Doctor, and may conclude that that nothing could have been done for a victim.

I am ensuring that the circumstances surrounding this ignored death are thoroughly investigated, in the hopes that similar deaths can be prevented in the future. My original question was: what advance protocols can be used in the streets to address this emergency? I did not think that this effort would be taken in such a sinister way.

You obviously must have missed the point here. With conditions such as this, there is nothing we can do prehospital. They need a neurosurgeon ASAP- period- if they have any chance of surviving and even then it's dicey. If that aneurysm is leaking or gawd forbid bursts, there is nothing we can do. Depending on where the problem is, the bleeding and pressure may not kill them immediately, but the prognosis is less than grim.