Paramedic Accademy Liability

[DartmouthDave]

Hello,

-----> WOW! You Paramedics must get big great money up there in Whitehourse to walk away from an incomplete $6000 course.

I wonder if we have read the same messages?

Do what you want. Try to get your money back if you want. Just hang in there get things done if you want. Heck, I know a few people in your situation. Waiting for their ACP clinicals. I have friends in the Army waiting to finish their PCP programs as well. Your lot in life isn't unique. Just don't act brashly.

-----> Something tells me your work for the JI

Am I a big supporter of the JI? No. The school has issues. However, despite issues within JI how can they be accountable for a labour dispute between BCAS and the BC government? Sure...follow that logic and if there was a nursing strike all the universities would have to refund their students? An RT strike? An OT strike? A PT strike?

The best of luck with whatever option you select. However, one can not solicit advice and get frustrated with the responses.

Cheers

Edited February 2, 2010 by DartmouthDave

[technocardy]

From what I have heard, the JI is not being held responsible for the lost costs due to the "strike" that BC Ambulance went on early 2009. I know there are over 350 students that need to be precepted, and the JI isn't going to be offering a refund to "unsuccessful" (students that have not being able to do on-car as a result of the strike) students. I think, you, like the other ~349 students just need to wait it out a little longer until this mess clears up.

[tniuqs]

Well the way I look at it is somewhat different ... Why not go to the Media ... is it JI's fault that Comrade Campbell er (Vanoc) stated this mess ?

This would be my first option if I were in the OPs situation.

Realistically there are 4 parties responsible (the Primary already noted with forced OT and Bill 21) the parts that statred this pissing match so hold THEM responsible.

2- JI for a financial commitment to provide training and then no "back up plan" for placement ie field practicums, the JI putting all the bread in one basket is folly Dartmouth Dave.

3- BCAS and ultimately one of the biggest negative influence's as the entire the stepping stone or mother please may I politically interwoven EMS system, some non voluntary early retirement packages should be a tangible idea, you so need fresh blood in BCAS.

4- CUPE - Interesting that the membership (although stating publicly that they wish to address response and staffing) put the brakes on in the area of professional development, to the public it appears (those with half a brain) that this is hypocrisy, quite frankly it appears to be an attempt at "punishing" tactics, it reflects VERY negatively.

As for technocardy's advice meh the wait and watch approach has not worked effectively in the past in BC ... so do the math and 350 students x ______ =(the ca$h invested) .. use a legal solution OR a political solution, sitting around waiting is just not going to solve anything.

Or then again just Move Away to where the grass is greener, avoiding ALL the trolls under the bridge, this may be far more effective and timely with AIT reciprocity these days, just saying.

cheers

Edited February 8, 2010 by tniuqs

[DartmouthDave]

Well the way I look at it is somewhat different ... Why not go to the Media ... is it JI's fault that Comrade Campbell er (Vanoc) stated this mess ?

This would be my first option if I were in the OPs situation.

Realistically there are 4 parties responsible (the Primary already noted with forced OT and Bill 21) the parts that statred this pissing match so hold THEM responsible.

2- JI for a financial commitment to provide training and then no "back up plan" for placement ie field practicums, the JI putting all the bread in one basket is folly Dartmouth Dave.

3- BCAS and ultimately one of the biggest negative influence's as the entire the stepping stone or mother please may I politically interwoven EMS system, some non voluntary early retirement packages should be a tangible idea, you so need fresh blood in BCAS.

4- CUPE - Interesting that the membership (although stating publicly that they wish to address response and staffing) put the brakes on in the area of professional development, to the public it appears (those with half a brain) that this is hypocrisy, quite frankly it appears to be an attempt at "punishing" tactics, it reflects VERY negatively.

As for technocardy's advice meh the wait and watch approach has not worked effectively in the past in BC ... so do the math and 350 students x ______ =(the ca$h invested) .. use a legal solution OR a political solution, sitting around waiting is just not going to solve anything.

Or then again just Move Away to where the grass is greener, avoiding ALL the trolls under the bridge, this may be far more effective and timely with AIT reciprocity these days, just saying.

cheers

Hello,

I agree with your points about CUPE (#2) and BCAS (#3).

But not with #2...The JI.

Again, how can an organization (...though flaw in many ways...) be responsible for a labour dispute between CUPE and the BC government that has fermented into a toxic situation?

What back-up plan could they have made? Finding spots outside of BC for clinicals? Is that pratical for 350 students? No. How many PCP students living in Vancouver could afford to spend three weeks (...or more...) living in Edmonton, Calgary or Red Deer for example?

What about the different scope of practice between BC and Alberta BLS. Such as 3-lead EKG, doing 12-leads, King-LT to name a few. All things not covered by the JI's PCP program.

Crew set up (i.e. ACP/PCP).

Lisecening issues between BC and Alberta. How many PCP students could afford or be will to pay to get an EMR lisence from Alberta College of Paramedics? Because the JI wouldn't be flipping this bill....

I am sure I could come up with a few more things as well.

So, yes it sucks. I feel bad for all the folks stuck in a mire because of this strike. Students. Paramedics. The public. But, 350 screwed students are not going to pull of a coup d'etat and get their money back from the JI.

[rock_shoes]

What about the different scope of practice between BC and Alberta BLS. Such as 3-lead EKG, doing 12-leads, King-LT to name a few. All things not covered by the JI's PCP program.

PCP programs in BC are taught to the NOCP which does include the things you mention here. These are differences in licensed SOP not instructed SOP. The Alta. EMT-A SOP does not include the use of Naloxone or Thiamine while the BC SOP does for example.

[tniuqs]

PCP programs in BC are taught to the NOCP which does include the things you mention here. These are differences in licensed SOP not instructed SOP. The Alta. EMT-A SOP does not include the use of Naloxone or Thiamine while the BC SOP does for example.

Good thing we have National Standards <insert sarcasm>

[rock_shoes]

Realistically there are 4 parties responsible (the Primary already noted with forced OT and Bill 21) the parts that statred this pissing match so hold THEM responsible.

2- JI for a financial commitment to provide training and then no "back up plan" for placement ie field practicums, the JI putting all the bread in one basket is folly Dartmouth Dave.

The JI has been through this whole thing enough times to know contract negotiations would be a mess. They did in fact have an ethical responsibility to inform students of possible precepting difficulties prior to taking their money. As for using multiple “baskets” you have to admit that becomes much more difficult when there is only one “basket” in the province.

3- BCAS and ultimately one of the biggest negative influence's as the entire the stepping stone or mother please may I politically interwoven EMS system, some non voluntary early retirement packages should be a tangible idea, you so need fresh blood in BCAS.

Honestly it’s probably time to scrap the entire structure and start fresh. I do still believe in using a provincial delivery model. The current one is just broken beyond repair. Forming that new structure will not be possible with the current provincial government. Right now it’s a matter of holding things together until Campbell gets the boot. The sooner it happens the better things will become.

4- CUPE - Interesting that the membership (although stating publicly that they wish to address response and staffing) put the brakes on in the area of professional development, to the public it appears (those with half a brain) that this is hypocrisy, quite frankly it appears to be an attempt at "punishing" tactics, it reflects VERY negatively.

I can’t say a whole lot with regards to the union as working in BC still requires me to be a member in good standing. I will say that I have very strong, well defined, beliefs with regards to professional development. I truly look forward to having the privilege of precepting students.

As for technocardy's advice meh the wait and watch approach has not worked effectively in the past in BC ... so do the math and 350 students x ______ =(the ca$h invested) .. use a legal solution OR a political solution, sitting around waiting is just not going to solve anything.

Or then again just Move Away to where the grass is greener, avoiding ALL the trolls under the bridge, this may be far more effective and timely with AIT reciprocity these days, just saying.

cheers

If we all give up and move away nothing will change for the better. Someone has to stand up and fight even if it does mean taking a beating. If Campbell is allowed his way the people of BC will end up returning to the days of having only Ambulance Drivers available (I know some Driver Only’s exist but the fewer the better).

Ed

Good thing we have National Standards <insert sarcasm>

I didn't say that an overhaul would be a waste of time. A significant elevation in educational standards across the board would be time well spent for all parties involved. The PAC is going to need a hell of a lot more support than it has received of late for it to happen.

[tniuqs]

And then I receive this in my inbox ... very curious ain't it?

Significant interprovincial project will benefit the profession of Paramedicine

February 10, 2010 - Canadian Paramedic Regulators welcome the announcement on February 10, 2010 of federal funding of $1.2 million for a two-year project to increase labour mobility and prepare for foreign credential recognition across the country. The project features the development of national standards of competence and interprovincial examinations for the qualification and assessment of paramedics.

Paramedic regulators will be contributing a similar amount to the project in time, effort and other in-kind expenditures making this a nearly $2-million initiative. It will involve paramedics from every region and will include consultation with key stakeholders such as employers, governments, educators, physicians, paramedics, and their associations.

The specific outcomes of the project include:

• Consensus on a common scope of practice and standard of competence supported by provincial regulators for each of four levels of practice of paramedicine: Emergency Medical Responders, Primary Care Paramedics (PCP), Advanced Care Paramedics (ACP) and Critical Care Paramedics. This will serve as a common interprovincial standard for licensure thus enabling full labour mobility for practitioners.

• An interprovincial entry-to-practice examination for two levels of practice representing 80% of all practitioners (PCP and ACP).

• A collaborative approach to research to support evidence-based decision making to maintain the competency standards and the exams, and pursue issues of common interest.

• A framework for a common assessment process for internationally trained paramedics.

• An operational plan for the maintenance and sustaining of the competence standards and the interprovincial exams, including the formalization of a national organization of paramedic regulators.

Paramedic Regulators involved with this important initiative are as follows:

• British Columbia Emergency Medical Assistants Licensing Board

• Alberta College of Paramedics

• Saskatchewan College of Paramedics

• Manitoba Health - Emergency Medical Services

• Ontario Emergency Health Services Branch

• Ministère de la Santé et des Services sociaux du Québec

• Paramedic Association of New Brunswick

• Prince Edward Island

• Nova Scotia College of Paramedics

• Government of Newfoundland and Labrador - Health and Community Services

• No Territory of Canada currently regulates paramedics

The group appreciates the assistance of the Alberta College of Paramedics in providing oversight and coordination of this project on behalf of all regulators.

The first steps for the project will be the hiring of a project manager and organizing a formal meeting in Montreal in May 2010. At that meeting the regulators will build on previous work together to confirm interprovincial scopes of practice and corresponding competency standards for four levels of practice. This will enable consultation with stakeholders on the competencies and the development of the exam blueprints. There will be opportunities for paramedics at the PCP and ACP levels to participate in the exam development and validation stages.

Watch for further updates from your provincial paramedic regulator.

Ok firstly did my a self governing body ie ACoP discuss this incentive and why is Montreal where this brain storming will occur.

3 things pop off this paper:

1-prepare for foreign credential recognition across the country.

2-maintenance and sustaining of the competence standards and the interprovincial exams OMG I sure as hell hope no one even thinks of adopts the Alberta Con-Ed software from hell !

3- A framework for a common assessment process for internationally trained paramedics. Umm Why ?

4- This will serve as a common interprovincial standard for licensure thus enabling full labour mobility for practitioners. So a glut of folks moving from low wages to higher wages ... This is going to solve what again ?

5- EMR should never be a regulated entity ... This is a advanced First Aider FFS !

Looks like the self appointed regulatory bodies (and mostly government influenced now) have decided to raise our dues AGAIN without consultation from the actual membership and half or this plan will come from our pocketbooks ... to make this work.

I can only ponder why this has occurred at this juncture (and during a resection) and what party(s) are behind this "incentive".

My biggest concern now is that this will amount to the lowest common denominator this will become the standard,(they are holding it in Montreal where to the best of my knowledge there are no ACP huh ?) Quite an odd thing as Health Care is the under the jurisdiction of the Province not the Feds, are the same CPP benefits, early retirement, and fair pay going to be discussed as well ...looks like I will be cashing in my Air Miles to get there to speak my mind.

Hey Maybe Trumpy will head up the "unification" to excellence ?

Edited February 11, 2010 by tniuqs