Time saved by exceeding speed limit

[EMT City Administrator]

I set up a page that you can play with to see how much time is really saved by exceeding the speed limit.

http://www.emtcity.com/index.php/page/speed

[tskstorm]

Very interesting tool here.

I can't wait to hear, the conversation that comes from this.

[emtannie]

I like this!

This is a constant battle with some staff... that "Pedal to the metal" mentality is still alive and well.

When I work rural, we have calls where it is 60+ miles to the patient, and sometimes more than that to the closest hospital. It drives me crazy when I have a partner who thinks that this is a good reason to drive 80+mph...

My personal thoughts on this.... when my partner drives that fast, every bump in the road is amplified, and it makes my job in the back more difficult to do; it increases the risk to me, my partner, my patient, and others on the road, not to mention that it is completely outside our policies and regulation; on a transport that long, if our patient is going to die, he is going to die regardless of the possibly 10 minutes we have saved in a 60 mile trip.

Just my 2 cents..

[cynical_as_hell]

I think that driving with lights and sirens needs to be done away with. Why are we putting ourselvers, our partner, and the community we work in at higher risk just because someone else called 911??? Most of the time when we get there, it really wasn't needed to run with lights and sirens and was only done because it's in policy. In my company, even if you are running code3, med3 whatever each area calls it, we STILL have to stop at stop signs, red lights, and all intersections. What time is really being saved??? It is an unnecessary risk if you ask me. We already have enough responsibilities and liability, why add more?

[JPINFV]

A even easier thought experiment is to compare an hour long transport by a vehicle going 60 mph and 70 mph. 60's a nice number because 60 mph is a mile a minute.

In an hour, the distances will be 60 miles and 70 miles and the difference is 10 miles. 10 miles is 10 minutes. So in an hour, a unit saves 70 miles. That's not exactly a lot of time.

Now there's two caveats when it comes to speeding. First off, in some areas the only thing going the speed limit will do is have you meet the person behind you. I don't recommend going 55 if the speed of traffic is 75-80 mph.

Second caveat. No matter what speed you go, the total transport time will be longer if you get into an accident.

[Medic One]

I don't think speed really saves that much time we have had several instances were for example we respond a supervisor and ALS ambulance to all cardiac arrests on a hot response and a back-up car as an assist on a cold response. Seven or eight times out of ten the cold response car arrives about two minutes later on average.

We also completed studies locally prior to EMD where a supervisor responded hot to some calls and the Amb responded cold until the supervisor was able to determine if they ambulance needed to upgrade to hot and once again seven or eight times out of ten the ambulance arrived about two minutes after the supervisor.

What I feel it all comes down to is knowing your area well, knowing more direct routes on less congested roads, use of CAD GPS and/or Fleet Eyes mapping program to find the closest avail unit, system status managment ei: posting units in areas during peak traffic hrs, and utilizing EMD properly.

With EMD our city works well by properly coding the call Alpha (cold) or Bravo/Charlie/Delta/Echo (all hot) but we also respond to rural communities that take the call and then call us for an ALS response to back-up the BLS Volunteer units and 90% of the calls are a minimum of a Charlie response (ALS Request Hot Response). I know that the response codes are not correct and have been told by dispatchers of these communities that "Oh we don't trust the Volunteers and they falsify the EMD code with the loop holes of Dispatcher discretion to dispatch ALS". Now I know that it is wrong for them to do that and really can't complaint either because it is contractual issues that I don't want to mess with. Our average response is 15-20 minutes to some of these towns and the dispatchers feel if they start us hot we can get there sooner or the VOl can cancel us .....NOT they never do!!

I have on avaerage only saved a few minutes to get on scene so Speed is not an issue.

The other thing is our units are GPS live tracked with the RoadMate system, ZOLL CAD and Fleet Eyes Mapping. Our state laws only give reponding emergency vehicles 10mph over any posted speed limit during hot response ONLY if road conditions & traffic conditions are safe and we must travel with due reguard.

Now the RoadMate systems in our units are like in car black boxes - similar to flight recorders. They reocrd everything from headlights on/off, blinkers, seat belt monitoring, speed, tachometer, cornering and braking.

Each driver my "Fob" in everytime the car is started. We get "points" added if we violate things such as speed. We only get 65mph max before the audible warning sounds when the emergency lights are off and 75 when they are on.

We get points for hard accelerations determined by the G's pulled in the car matched with tach or engine rev speeds.

We also get points for hard braking determned by G's pulled on the car.

I can say our times to get on scene did increase with this system put in place but not by much...what it did help was the condition of the cars...they get less beat on our brakes have lasted longer and we have had less accidents.

Oh and one last thing the dispatch supervisor can monitor this information live for each car and can do one of a few things....get on the radio and tell a car to slow down knowing that for example east main st is a 25mph zone and the car is doing 75mph.... or the supervisor can remotely turn the vehicle off which has helped when we had an ambulance stolen from the ER and a medic car stolen from the scene of another call.

So as I decide to stop rambling on....I think speed is not going to seriously affect your response times.

Sorry for going on and on but thats my thoughts on the subject.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Medic One

[Lone Star]

Medic One raises some valid points...

First off, you're not saving all that much time by driving 'balls to the wall' to get on scene.

Second of all, the more prudent driving saves wear and tear on the vehicles as well as the more important LESS ACCIDENTS.

It doesn't matter how much time you've 'saved' getting close to the call, when you've ended up wrapped around a tree, sign post or have just 't-boned' a station wagon with 4 kids in the back seat.

Most urban area streets are marked 35-45 mph for a reason. Residential areas are posted at even lower speeds. This is done FOR A REASON! That 'reason' isn't to slow down emergency response crews, it's not just a 'good idea'....it's for public safety.

Here's something else to think about while you're contemplating using the floor board as your foot rest (putting the pedal to the metal)...braking distances:

[Kiwiology]

Good points raised by all.

Like Medic One we use ProQA/AMPDS so get an A-E detriment; it doesn't really mean much because unlike in the US we do not have true multi-agency or multi vehicle capability. The exceptions are for a D or an E in an area where a first response group exists (usually the Fire Service) they will go or if it's in metropolitan Auckland/Christchurch you may get an Intensive Care (ALS) rapid responder.

Under our contract with the Ministry of Health a C, D or E is made priority one so we have to be there within .... I think 8 minutes in an "urban" area and 16 minutes in a "rural" area. It DOES NOT mean we have to use lights or sirens and in some cases no visible warning is given; whats the point if its one in the morning and the call it two blocks down the road?

As far as speed I think it's largely unncessary and borne out of false pretence of the "golden hour" or other such crap; Bryan Bledsoe has a good PowerPoint on his website about both. The minutes you save is not worth the risk. Going back to hospital p1 is something I have seen twice in four years; one for a STEMI and once for seizure.

[armymedic571]

I can't say I totally agree with not speeding while responding to calls. Those in rural areas can save much needed time for those truly sick patients. However, I will concede that we run more BS than critical medical.

Furthermore, I think a little common sense needs to be taken by the drivers of these vehicles in regards to road conditions, road types and the maneuverability of the vehicle.

I think the real issue os transporting back to the hospital. Take your time. If they are that unstable. Call for help or call for helicopter.

[Richard B the EMT]

No matter what the call is, it is not YOUR emergency.

You have to balance the "Need for Speed" against the "Ride that's a Glide"

In inclement weather, the road is going to be slippery.

I don't care what tire type you have, or snow chains, or all wheel drive, they just help you start moving. They rarely help you stop when you're already skidding. Try not to get into a skid in the first place.