NR Basic Exam Failure

[Jax]

Hi All,

My hubby and I just finished our EMT Basic Class. We've been in EMS before so the class was a breeze and we both did very well. We reviewd with the EMT Basic Interactive Flashcard book and would say we know this stuff cold. Maybe missed 5 questions in the whole book, pretty much knew the answer and could go find it.

We took out NR test on Monday and were blown away by the way the test is worded. We felt certain that we failed. We didn't, but we said more than once that, had we failed, we wouldn't have any idea how to study for the retake. It felt like a battery of trick questions.

So, this morning we have a classmate who just learned she did fail - for the third time. She'd taken the test twice before taking our class with us.

Does anyone have any resources that we can point her to for studying. What is it about that test?

Any thoughts you have would be most appreciated.

Feel free to email me privately if you like.

Jax

wtmtnmedx@gmail.com

[Stephanie28]

Hi All,

My hubby and I just finished our EMT Basic Class. We've been in EMS before so the class was a breeze and we both did very well. We reviewd with the EMT Basic Interactive Flashcard book and would say we know this stuff cold. Maybe missed 5 questions in the whole book, pretty much knew the answer and could go find it.

We took out NR test on Monday and were blown away by the way the test is worded. We felt certain that we failed. We didn't, but we said more than once that, had we failed, we wouldn't have any idea how to study for the retake. It felt like a battery of trick questions.

So, this morning we have a classmate who just learned she did fail - for the third time. She'd taken the test twice before taking our class with us.

Does anyone have any resources that we can point her to for studying. What is it about that test?

Any thoughts you have would be most appreciated.

Feel free to email me privately if you like.

Jax

wtmtnmedx@gmail.com

When I took my EMT class in our packet of books we had one that said NREMT Basic Review Manual (I believe) it is a green book. The questions in that book are almost just like the questions on the exam. It helped me tremedously.

[NickD]

>>We took out NR test on Monday and were blown away by the way the test is worded.<<

Many say that, and you're right. You can know your EMT course material inside out and backwards and still fail the CBT. And that's because rather then how you sat tests in high school/college the CBT is based on critical thinking which is taking sterile facts, figures, and procedures and applying them to messy time limited pressure added situations. And all EMT instructors should educate their students to that fact so they too aren't blown away come test day.

The only way the NREMT could make the CBT better would be make you take it on the shoulder of a freeway with traffic whizzing by and three or four patient relatives screaming in your ear . . .

Congratulations on passing!

[Dustdevil]

I think one problem may be that too many of today's instructors never took the CBT, since it is a relatively new thing.

It sounds like things really haven't changed much though, from the written exam days. Having already been a paramedic for thirty years, I took the NREMT-B written in 2005 and walked away honestly wondering if I had passed or not. The questions were that confusing. Although, I have to say that basic questions are a lot more confusing for an ALS practitioner than for someone straight out of EMT school.

As for your friend, I have to honestly say that this simply may not be her bag. No matter how interested she seems, or how intelligent she is, some people simply don't have the aptitude for certain subjects. I'm a good medic, but I can't boil water, much less cook. Whether or not I can sing is a matter of heated public debate, but I digress.

If she is bound and determined to do this for whatever reason, then I have but one piece of advice for her; She needs to LEARN THE MATERIAL, and not learn the test. Flash cards and review question books are shyte. They are marginally useful as adjuncts to gauge your knowledge. However, they are absolutely useless as test prep material, especially if you have already failed once or more. In fact, they are probably hurting her. She needs to read, read, read, and re-read the book until it is not just memorised, but UNDERSTOOD. She should be immediately reciting the answers to questions, not because she has them memorised, but because she UNDERSTANDS the answers.

When a student doesn't actually understand the concepts concretely within their brain, either their instruction sucks (entirely possible, but this is her second school), or else she simply does not have the aptitude for this particular field. There comes a point where one must be honest with themselves about their limitations.

[Floridastudent]

I've got to say I completely agree here - the questions on our tests in the EMT class feel like trick questions where there are generally two obviously wrong answers and then two right answers and I have to guess and pick the most right one and hope I guessed right! I can't cry too much because have a 91 in the class and I'm no. 2 at the moment - but I'm studying just as hard for this class as I did for A&P I and Medical Terminology and I ACED those classes.

My understanding is that the questions that we get for the tests in this class are similar to the NREMTB.

As for your friend - possibly retaking the class with a different instructor at a different school will help? I KNOW that's a lot to ask - but even though my current class is incredibly hard - I do feel like I am getting good preparation for the national registry. Perhaps a different course of instruction would help her.

And then there is always the possibility, as was mentioned in this thread, that EMT just isn't for her. But if she's really interested in it as a field I'd say don't give up yet.

[kthanid]

Guys the reason people fail CBT adaptive tests is because they stink.

When you having something a warcraft addict who lives in his room all day could pass with two months study and never leave the room, yet however a combat medic with say 2000 hours on the job/same time studying might fail more often, you have something that stinks.

Adaptive tests are an old 1950's fashion that thankfully went out of fashion mostly as you needed another person real time choosing the questions. Thanks to computers and internet its come back into fashion for underfunded orgs who want something " cool and technical and ADAPTIVE" to try and make up for poor practical standards.

Adaptive tests stink for all the same reasons they originally went out of fashion for.

If they were any good the whole academic world would be using them.

But the real world knows they can't afford to have college students who have spent 4 years and a lot of money studying their butt off, and knowing 100% of the subject matter, completely fail some lunatic adaptive test on the last day.

Edited September 11, 2010 by kthanid

[+medic]

Guys the reason people fail CBT adaptive tests is because they stink.

When you having something a warcraft addict who lives in his room all day could pass with two months study and never leave the room, yet however a combat medic with say 2000 hours on the job/same time studying might fail more often, you have something that stinks.

Adaptive tests are an old 1950's fashion that thankfully went out of fashion mostly as you needed another person real time choosing the questions. Thanks to computers and internet its come back into fashion for underfunded orgs who want something " cool and technical and ADAPTIVE" to try and make up for poor practical standards.

Adaptive tests stink for all the same reasons they originally went out of fashion for.

If they were any good the whole academic world would be using them.

But the real world knows they can't afford to have college students who have spent 4 years and a lot of money studying their butt off, and knowing 100% of the subject matter, completely fail some lunatic adaptive test on the last day.

There is never a sure way to make a computer test work for everyone. Adaptive testing is more to see what you actually know then what you think you know. Many times people know the material they just don’t know or understand the testing system. The NREMT test system is a good system to make sure you can think on your feet. You are only as good as the person who thought you the course material in the first place. The EMT class I took had a very high pass rate and the instructor was top notch. In fact he would not even let us test if he felt we were not ready both for the written and the practical. EMS is not for everyone but I’m a firm believer that being an EMT Basic is something most people can do.

[kthanid]

There is never a sure way to make a computer test work for everyone. Adaptive testing is more to see what you actually know then what you think you know. Many times people know the material they just don't know or understand the testing system. The NREMT test system is a good system to make sure you can think on your feet. You are only as good as the person who thought you the course material in the first place. The EMT class I took had a very high pass rate and the instructor was top notch. In fact he would not even let us test if he felt we were not ready both for the written and the practical. EMS is not for everyone but I'm a firm believer that being an EMT Basic is something most people can do.

Any org that can afford human examiners and graders uses them.

The computer marked multiple choice test is still what it always was, the cheapest option to get some sort of result, and only used for low level testing, or where the course had low fees.

The 'adaptive computer marked multiple choice test' is 1 step better but just means your org bought from the second lowest software bidder.

Let me put it this way.

when they start assessing students college exams for degrees/bachelors/PHD's worth $20,000-100,000 by giving them computer adaptive tests you will know they are a great idea.

Until then they are only sold to people who are worth an expendable $70 entrance fee and $15-20 an hour maximum wage.

Period.

Now getting off pure objective academic factand back onto my subjective opinion of a computer adaptive test is

They stink, they are disempowering, and they collect money for the cheap org in control by retesting people.

[mattmattmattmatt]

Welcome to the Information Age of Technology

[Lauri]

Jax, I felt the same way! We were lucky that our instructor knew how to prepare us for the CBT. The best advice I can give for your friend is to read the answers first... then read the question. Also to take her time, and not get flustered by the wording, or if she gets one wrong.

Lauri