Shopping With The Apparatus Nonsense

[Eydawn]

Hey, at least they weren't at the titty bar.

They were freakin' grocery shopping for crying out loud... within a reasonable distance from the fire house. I bet they waste a whole lot less diesel getting groceries than they do needlessly responding to EMS calls. I personally am totally OK with this. This kind of break promotes mental well-being; companies with closed-campus lunch and strict "clock in and out for all your meals" stuff have poor morale and often worse performance than their looser counterparts.

I would rather see them out in the community than twiddling their thumbs at some station where nobody ever sees them, personally... at least this way they're walking around and getting some exercise, right? This is much less a waste of taxpayer money than other issues in the fire service and I think this is missing the forest for the seedlings...

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[spenac]

Spen, normally you have some good thinking points. This is not one of them.

How many "normal: jobs work 24 hour shifts? You are asking these guys to bring the stock of a kitchen into work with them every 3rd day?

What if this was a 3rd service EMS, with no set station, caught at McDonalds between calls, 6 blocks from their post?

Not making the fire/ems argument, God knows thats been hashed out enough, I just would like to hear your response.

If they have no station fire or EMS that is a whole different argument. Then I would be arguing that the taxpayers need to help get the crews a station. And if EMS has a station they should only leave it for calls not to go shopping.

It is not hard to bring groceries for a 24 hour shift. It is best to not give the public any reason to think you are wasting their money because then they will dig deeper into your budget and take away more toys.

[Dustdevil]

You can't say "titty" here.

[ambodriver]

Is this really a big deal? In fact often I do the shopping for the firehouse in the ambo (risky move btw--potential to catch multiple runs and have firefighters go hungry..lol). These guys can cry a river all they want. Typically if the firefighters are cooking (which is most of the time) they will take a buggy out to the store with their gear so they can respond from the store). If they are returning from a call they sometimes take the engine out. Hell one time I called the engine out to a scene to relieve us of the groceries.

This 'watchdog' sounds like a trouble maker if you ask me.

[HERBIE1]

If they have no station fire or EMS that is a whole different argument. Then I would be arguing that the taxpayers need to help get the crews a station. And if EMS has a station they should only leave it for calls not to go shopping.

It is not hard to bring groceries for a 24 hour shift. It is best to not give the public any reason to think you are wasting their money because then they will dig deeper into your budget and take away more toys.

Actually, it can be an issue to buy groceries ahead of time. What if they don't have their full complement of members for that day- short handed, vacations, manpower adjustments, call ins, trades, etc? These things are not always known ahead of time. The cook would need to cover for that missing person out of their own pocket. What if the company had training that day and would not be around for their meals? Shopping ahead is possible, but not always practical. This whistleblower had an ax to grind and was simply trying to stir the pot.

[spenac]

Actually, it can be an issue to buy groceries ahead of time. What if they don't have their full complement of members for that day- short handed, vacations, manpower adjustments, call ins, trades, etc? These things are not always known ahead of time. The cook would need to cover for that missing person out of their own pocket. What if the company had training that day and would not be around for their meals? Shopping ahead is possible, but not always practical. This whistleblower had an ax to grind and was simply trying to stir the pot.

Honestly normally there is more than enough food brought to the station and the odd man could just chip in some money to who ever had bought the food. And where I am at you are never short a man as you have to have someone come in if someone calls in sick or leaves hurt so they can chip in. And if you are allowed to be short a man you would only be adding at most a dollar to each remaining persons share of costs unless you are eating like kings.

Also why not keep some basic supplies like soup, oatmeal, etc in your locker or car. Then you could eat. You don't have to eat fancy.

I am also aware of many fire depts that have multiple sets of kitchen cabinets and multiple refrigerators so each shift has there supplies locked up. So usually they only need to bring a couple of items to make a meal and if they don't get to go shopping they can make something from what they have already. Might not be steak and shrimp but its food.

Another thing am I the only person that has actually stayed at my own home for a 24 hour time period w/o leaving? Many of you are whining about them going crazy from being stuck at the station with the TV, the comp, the exercise equipment, the video games either provided or brought from home, etc. What the heck? They have more readily available to do than most tax payers do.

[VentMedic]

It seems some are viewing this situation as just "one truck" when in reality it is several trucks from several stations. In a small city with 4 stations and an average of 2 - 4 trucks per station (average 24 FFs) each making at average of 2 - 4 trips to the grocery stores each day plus coffee runs, this can add up. In larger cities you may have 20 - 40 stations. The city miles/gallon for an engine is about 3 - 5 mpg while a ladder may average 2 mpg. You don't have to go far in a city to burn up 5 gallons of fuel easily. Granted the bigger cities may have a larger budget but fuel cost is still a considerable amount and FDs, especially those that do EMS, may even exceed that of the PD.

This has been the topic of many FDs and some are limiting unnecessary trips and some are rethinking how they respond to each scene by cutting the number vehicles to each alarm, both Fire and EMS. Also, some FDs would rather cut back on the community service activities that do benefit the public rather than tell their FFs they can not make several trips to Starbucks or shop all over town for each meal.

Surely some here have noticed their own fuel expenditures in this economy especially when it comes to short city errand trips and that is with your POV averaging 20 mpg.

Planning a meal for each shift or even the week of 2 - 3 shifts should be no different than what a family does with both parents working FT jobs and seeing the kids are taken care of. There should be enough down time at a fire station to work up a simple menu to either limit the trips or buy the food the night before or in the morning. This can be done for each individual or for the group. Millions of people in all industries work long hours and probably get a lot less sleep then many FFs. Doing 12 and 16 hour shifts at any job(s) for several consectitive days allows much less time for someone to plan for each meal and shop than a FF who works 2 - 24 hour shifts 2 - 3 days apart. Yet, other workers are able to get their meals and all it takes is a little planning and knowing it is a necessity for them to assume this responsibility on their own dime and time.

It is also the stations with very few calls that worry the most about shopping. The busy ones do plan ahead because they may know trips to the grocery would be a luxury. They are rarely in their station long enough to play house. It is also the busy ones that may understand a fuel budget and the importance of keeping a certain amount of vehicles available at all times.

Regardless of what company you work for, one should take the time to know what it costs to run a business and especially one that is commonly seen in public begging for tax dollars and public support. Abuse the privileges or bash the concerned taxpayers and it may be harder to convince the public they need to pay more property taxes especially when support is needed at election time for certain amendments.

Edited February 24, 2010 by VentMedic

[JakeEMTP]

Excellent post Vent!

Glad to have you back!

[spenac]

Excellent post Vent!

Glad to have you back!

I agree well put and welcome back Vent.

[AnthonyM83]

Wow, it's kind of embarrassing as a citizen that they'd be giving the fire department grief over this. They work 24-72 shifts sometimes. Give them some time to grab some food, get a little fresh air, and interact with the community.

Growing up we always saw the fire truck outside the supermarket and everyone loved it. Kids got to see the truck. Parents got to interact with the FD for a bit. They were a community presence.

Also, moral goes a LONG way as to how well they service the community. Let them freaking interact with the people they're putting their lives on the line for!