Its tax time! How much are we making in EMS?

[aussiephil]

Two things.

First, my base + incentives either meets or exceeds compensation in other fields that require 4-6 year degrees, and typically experience as well. But don't take my word for it, see for yourself:

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/jobs/listing/listing.asp

Second, I'm haven't even got two years on the job yet. My compensation is about as low as it gets here. Two promotions up to LT, which I can get in another four years, will leave me in the 90's as a base, and easily over six figures with ALS incentives. Plenty of step increases as well. My EMS Capt is a Capt I, which is only one promotion over LT, earns exactly twice my base. You need to hit all eleven steps to get that, but after six to seven years on I'll be eligible for that promotion. And considering that medics start at an 18/3, that's only another eight years to top out in step increases from when you start.

So, my current compensation is already competitive with those with a four to six year education, and I can look forward to more than doubling that during my career here. Adjusted for future inflation of course. Today's dollars, not tomorrow's. Nice try, wisenheimer. You're attempting to make a dubious comparison is compensation between two countries half a world apart with fluctuating exchange rates, and a whole different tax system, I'm sure. I've clearly compared apples with apples so to speak by using other job postings in the same county for comparison.

Dude, we make 6 figures without the degree, without dual role, without a promotion to Lt & without ALS.

but this isnt a pissing competition. enough said.

[Kiwiology]

Reading these I am very, very suprised. I have US friends who complain about being 20 year Paramedics and working three jobs at $11 an hour to pay as much of the bills as they can! I've also seen a bunch ads for EMTs and Paramedics at around the same, $12-$15 an hour and was under the impression that generally pay was pretty shit in your parts.

Earnings::

US$29,000-34,000 p.a. (BLS)

US$33,000-41,000 p.a. (ILS)

US$37,000-44,000 p.a. (ALS)

Job Title: Ambulance Technician (BLS), Paramedic (ILS) or Intensive Care Paramedic (ALS)

Experience: Salary is based upon practice level

Type: Two hospital based, two not-for-profit; pay at the hospital based services are the lowest

Country: New Zealand

Avg OT: Not required

Avg work week: Generally 48 hours, 4x12hrs on and 4 days off although varies some have on-call responsibilities

Cost of living: Huge variation, the "median" house price is US$240,000, gas is ~US$4 a gallon

Starting tax rate: 21.9% and up

Sales tax: 15%

The earnings above do not include Ambulance Team Leaders (senior AO on watch or station) or Team Managers (watch manager/tour supervisor) nor does it include District or Regional Managers as these are on the Management pay scale which is a bit nicer.

Keep in mind we have free universal healthcare too.

Pay is quite a contensious issue given the degree of regional variance, use of on call and callback based rosters, penal rates etc and the Union is quite tight lipped about who gets what, where and when.

Edited February 28, 2010 by kiwimedic

[46Young]

Dude, we make 6 figures without the degree, without dual role, without a promotion to Lt & without ALS.

but this isnt a pissing competition. enough said.

In all sincerity, I'm happy to see EMS being compensated well for a change. It's rare, very rare, to see anyone in EMS making six figures as a base. I think the median medic income is around 39 or 40k. Why, just for example, we'll use my last employer, Charleston County EMS. As a medic, they start you as a crew member. That's at around 38k. After six months, you bump to around 45k/yr. You top out at 68k, but that takes ten years. I think a station LT, which is a senoir crew chief, makes maybe 5k more. Now, there's a posting for asst director. Here's the link, it should be good for the moment:

https://jobsweb.charlestoncounty.org/hronline/public/vacancylisting.aspx

They only pay 60-74 grand for someone with a bachelors and 10 years managerial experience. I personally find this sad and pathetic. This is basically second in line under the director. I'm making that now. Charleston County has no excuse to compensate so poorly, since they're the richest county in the state. Their EMS also pays the highest.

I think it's a great thing to make a six figure base w/o OT where you are.

Reading these I am very, very suprised. I have US friends who complain about being 20 year Paramedics and working three jobs at $11 an hour to pay as much of the bills as they can! I've also seen a bunch ads for EMTs and Paramedics at around the same, $12-$15 an hour and was under the impression that generally pay was pretty shit in your parts.

Earnings::

US$29,000-34,000 p.a. (BLS)

US$33,000-41,000 p.a. (ILS)

US$37,000-44,000 p.a. (ALS)

Job Title: Ambulance Technician (BLS), Paramedic (ILS) or Intensive Care Paramedic (ALS)

Experience: Salary is based upon practice level

Type: Two hospital based, two not-for-profit; pay at the hospital based services are the lowest

Country: New Zealand

Avg OT: Not required

Avg work week: Generally 48 hours, 4x12hrs on and 4 days off although varies some have on-call responsibilities

Cost of living: Huge variation, the "median" house price is US$240,000, gas is ~US$4 a gallon

Starting tax rate: 21.9% and up

Sales tax: 15%

The earnings above do not include Ambulance Team Leaders (senior AO on watch or station) or Team Managers (watch manager/tour supervisor) nor does it include District or Regional Managers as these are on the Management pay scale which is a bit nicer.

Keep in mind we have free universal healthcare too.

Pay is quite a contensious issue given the degree of regional variance, use of on call and callback based rosters, penal rates etc and the Union is quite tight lipped about who gets what, where and when.

It's sad here. At least you guys have your stuff together. Check my above post. Supervisors with bachelors degrees can't even break six figures.That's why I think that EMS degrees past the AAS don't give much clinical content. If they did, it would be all the easier to branch off to another medical field where they're treated better, compensated better, and have more opportunity for advancement. As such, I don't see EMS growing and advancing into the roles of critical care and other areas that are currently handled by RN's. If one has most of the knowledge and/or classes required by nurses and maybe PA's, then they'll eventually migrate in that direction. Unless things change regarding working conditions, salary, and such, I don't see the clinical education for the paramedic passing the level of the EMS AAS here. I could see the AAS becoming the minimum standard for entry, but not much where clinical knowledge is concerned.

[DwayneEMTP]

In all sincerity, I'm happy to see EMS being compensated well for a change. It's rare, very rare, to see anyone in EMS making six figures as a base. I think the median medic income is around 39 or 40k. Why, just for example, we'll use my last employer, Charleston County EMS. As a medic, they start you as a crew member. That's at around 38k. After six months, you bump to around 45k/yr. You top out at 68k, but that takes ten years. I think a station LT, which is a senoir crew chief, makes maybe 5k more. Now, there's a posting for asst director. Here's the link, it should be good for the moment:

https://jobsweb.char...ncylisting.aspx

They only pay 60-74 grand for someone with a bachelors and 10 years managerial experience. I personally find this sad and pathetic. This is basically second in line under the director. I'm making that now. Charleston County has no excuse to compensate so poorly, since they're the richest county in the state. Their EMS also pays the highest.

I think it's a great thing to make a six figure base w/o OT where you are.

It's sad here. At least you guys have your stuff together. Check my above post. Supervisors with bachelors degrees can't even break six figures.That's why I think that EMS degrees past the AAS don't give much clinical content. If they did, it would be all the easier to branch off to another medical field where they're treated better, compensated better, and have more opportunity for advancement. As such, I don't see EMS growing and advancing into the roles of critical care and other areas that are currently handled by RN's. If one has most of the knowledge and/or classes required by nurses and maybe PA's, then they'll eventually migrate in that direction. Unless things change regarding working conditions, salary, and such, I don't see the clinical education for the paramedic passing the level of the EMS AAS here. I could see the AAS becoming the minimum standard for entry, but not much where clinical knowledge is concerned.

Kudos x 2. First for not being bated into a name calling shitfest. I've been frustrated with your arguments and what at times seems your desire to ignore mine, but I have a lot of respect for the way that you've conducted yourself all the while. Thanks for that.

Second, I think that you've made your point here more clearly than at any other time, and were able to do so without arguing that the union is the only way to accomplish such things, which of course would have voided your point for many. I also respect the fact that you've continued to make your point regardless of it's popularity over and over in different ways. Pretty cool.

Side note, do our brothers in Aus and NZ have unions in place as we know them here?

Dwayne

[aussiephil]

Kudos x 2. First for not being bated into a name calling shitfest. I've been frustrated with your arguments and what at times seems your desire to ignore mine, but I have a lot of respect for the way that you've conducted yourself all the while. Thanks for that.

Second, I think that you've made your point here more clearly than at any other time, and were able to do so without arguing that the union is the only way to accomplish such things, which of course would have voided your point for many. I also respect the fact that you've continued to make your point regardless of it's popularity over and over in different ways. Pretty cool.

Side note, do our brothers in Aus and NZ have unions in place as we know them here?

Dwayne

Dwayne,

Unions here in aussie are strong, industrial bodies. We also have professional associations that we can be involed in.

The main thing to remember is that our Industrial Relations systems are different. The state I am in has all employees under an Award that covers all employees, and is in force for a 3 year priod. In essence, our Union represents us on industrial matters, associations for other matters.

I think it's a great thing to make a six figure base w/o OT where you are.

That isnt what I said. I said without a degree. OT is optional unless extention of shift.

[fiznat]

Anonymous submission PM'ed to me from one of our members:

Earnings: $65,000 (give or take) counting little to no overtime.

Job Title: Paramedic

Experience: Newer medic/no previous bls experience

Type: Private ambulance company

State: Midwest/Western state

Avg OT: 2 hrs/week (3on/4off, 4on/3off 12's)

401k 6% match, health insurance 25% employee pay/75% employer paid. 2wks/year combined sick/personal days ( 7 days PTO however you want to use it.) Rural/Low cost of living community. No retirement. Great work environment.

Thank you to that user above, I appreciate that you were willing to still participate even though you had concerns about anonymity. Please, if anyone else wants to participate in this way feel free to PM me. I will keep your identity secure and post only the info you choose.

Yeah and as others have already mentioned, this isn't a "who's got the bigger salary" competition. It is simply a resource (in progress) that others can look to so that they can give some perspective to their own earnings.

[46Young]

Dwayne,

Unions here in aussie are strong, industrial bodies. We also have professional associations that we can be involed in.

The main thing to remember is that our Industrial Relations systems are different. The state I am in has all employees under an Award that covers all employees, and is in force for a 3 year priod. In essence, our Union represents us on industrial matters, associations for other matters.

That isnt what I said. I said without a degree. OT is optional unless extention of shift.

I looked over each of your posts on this thread several times, and nowhere did I see where you said that you're earning six figures without a degree. I thought that a two year degree was required to work EMS in Australia. I surely hope you don't expect me to believe that your base salary is in the six figures as a medical first responder, in USD as you say. If that were true, paramedics around your way would be making as much as an attending ER physician in the states, which can be around 200k I believe.

As per kiwimedic's post, you're trying to tell me that you're making 250% the salary of a medic in NZ (100k is 250% of 40k, the median salary for a medic there). If this is inaccurate, please feel free to explain.

Anonymous submission PM'ed to me from one of our members:

Earnings: $65,000 (give or take) counting little to no overtime.

Job Title: Paramedic

Experience: Newer medic/no previous bls experience

Type: Private ambulance company

State: Midwest/Western state

Avg OT: 2 hrs/week (3on/4off, 4on/3off 12's)

401k 6% match, health insurance 25% employee pay/75% employer paid. 2wks/year combined sick/personal days ( 7 days PTO however you want to use it.) Rural/Low cost of living community. No retirement. Great work environment.

Thank you to that user above, I appreciate that you were willing to still participate even though you had concerns about anonymity. Please, if anyone else wants to participate in this way feel free to PM me. I will keep your identity secure and post only the info you choose.

Yeah and as others have already mentioned, this isn't a "who's got the bigger salary" competition. It is simply a resource (in progress) that others can look to so that they can give some perspective to their own earnings.

I hear you. This could be used as an eye opener for someone working for what they thought was good money. This could be used as a guide for where to work, where the money, desireable working conditions, and bennies are. Matter of fact, I'll start a thread in regards. I started one on EMTlife called "Quality EMS Agencies". I listed all my previous employers and went into great detail about each. Check it out.

Kudos x 2. First for not being bated into a name calling shitfest. I've been frustrated with your arguments and what at times seems your desire to ignore mine, but I have a lot of respect for the way that you've conducted yourself all the while. Thanks for that.

Second, I think that you've made your point here more clearly than at any other time, and were able to do so without arguing that the union is the only way to accomplish such things, which of course would have voided your point for many. I also respect the fact that you've continued to make your point regardless of it's popularity over and over in different ways. Pretty cool.

Side note, do our brothers in Aus and NZ have unions in place as we know them here?

Dwayne

Thank you, sir.

[paramedicmike]

Really? That's funny. It was plain as day at the top of page two of this thread.

Still can't find it? I quoted it for you.

Dude, we make 6 figures without the degree, without dual role, without a promotion to Lt & without ALS.

edit for misplaced apostrophe

Edited March 1, 2010 by paramedicmike

[46Young]

Really? That's funny. It was plain as day at the top of page two of this thread.

Still can't find it? I quoted it for you.

edit for misplaced apostrophe

My last post was made in response to an earlier one. In fact, I was responding to the one that you quoted. I dipped down to kiwi's post to make a point. The post in question was quoted within my own post, #13, since I was responding to it. It was plain as day to use your words.

Phil said that he makes six figures, and then said that it isn't a pissing match, even though he directly referenced me when posting his salary. I went back and said that my pay scale was on par with degreed professionals locally, and also that I can look forward to much growth from there, as I'm near the bottom of the pay scale. Phil then said that it his salary was without a degree, and that he stated that earlier. This was the post you quoted back to me. I then responded to that post, and finally you saw fit to show me up by posting what you said, not realizing the chronology of the conversation. XD

Edited March 1, 2010 by 46Young

[aussiephil]

I looked over each of your posts on this thread several times, and nowhere did I see where you said that you're earning six figures without a degree. I thought that a two year degree was required to work EMS in Australia. I surely hope you don't expect me to believe that your base salary is in the six figures as a medical first responder, in USD as you say. If that were true, paramedics around your way would be making as much as an attending ER physician in the states, which can be around 200k I believe.

I have reread my original post & I didnt say if I had a degree or not.

Your assumption is incorrect. No degree here is 2 years. If you want to do an appropriate degree, on its own, it is 3 years.

We also have the option og general entry, which, once again is 3 years to qualify to a stage that is somewhere between an EMT-I & EMT-P. Even those with a degree will go to this stage & then go through a competitive process to be accepted into a Paramedic training program, regardless of having a degree, for a further period of training. We are also required to undertake personal & professional development over a 3 year period with skills certification in that time as well.

I have made many references to the need for the US agencies to increase their skills modelling, without claiming ours to be perfect. The body of knowledge we are taught from day 1 prepares us for autonomy (ie, no medical control to discuss options with), as well as giving us the skills & drugs to properly treat our patients. I suggest you read some of my medical posts to see if I am a Medical First Responder.

6 Figures is common for rural officers here, with metro around 90K US.