Going to start school in fall for EMT-1 couple questions

[paramedicmike]

Thanks for the reply, but that is not what I intended. I left out the FF part because I am sure you guys hear it all the time, but I do want to become a FF paramedic.

We do hear it quite frequently from people who have no idea what they're talking about. We hear it from people who watch too much television and think what they see is real. Your initial deception and lack of honesty in an effort to obtain advice calls your credibility into question from this point on. It also did a huge disservice to you by delaying any advice that may have been truly applicable to your situation.

Ask the questions you want answers to and not the ones you think we want to hear. Include as much information as is relevant. Stating that you really wanted to be a firefighter was relevant to your line of questioning. By being less than honest from the very beginning you're not helping anyone.

So why not become and EMT than Paramedic while I am working to become a FF?

Because they're two different jobs. Yes, there are many fire departments that run EMS within the US. However, the job of a firefighter is vastly different from that of a paramedic. But that doesn't mean that you should use one (EMS) to gain access to the other (FF).

If you are interested in providing patient care in an EMS setting then go be a paramedic. If you decide you want to conduct drills, training, fire inspections, and maybe, if you're lucky, fight an occasional (and in most jurisdictions increasingly rare) fire then go be a firefighter.

I still think that you need to stay where you are and grow up a lot before considering making any move. Of, if you want to grow up more quickly, follow Dust's advice and join the military. I hear they have skydiving, too.

[clandest]

Thanks for the replies guys, but this forum is very bitter. I will be moving along, I know this doesn't mean anything to you. I am still going to do more research. I don't have any time to sit around at my current job and grow up. I need to start acting now on my future career.

Cheers

btw skydiving wold be cool

[Dustdevil]

Yeah, we're about as bitter as all the restaurant owners in LA who are sick of the constant turnover of waiters, who never cared about their job in the first place, because they're just waiting to get a call back from Hollywood.

The fire service is a parasite on the back of Emergency Medical Services that costs this nation lots of dollars and lots of lives. If you're not bitter about that, you're not living in the real world.

[LyonN]

WOW! I have scene a lot of constructive criticism on this site but most of what you guys just told this kid is straight negative!

Now I do agree with some of their responses Clandest, Paramedic is not for the faint at heart, expect to work your ass off just to be at the bottom of the chain. It's tough to give up 30k per year but it may be worth it, this is a decision you have to make.

Fire department and para-medicine mix very well at least here in New Mexico. I know plenty of "pumper monkeys" who are great Paramedics don't let these bitter old medics push you away. The fire service is very rewarding. Just expect to be held to a high standard, and not rewarded for it.

Good luck

[VentMedic]

Fire department and para-medicine mix very well at least here in New Mexico. I know plenty of "pumper monkeys" who are great Paramedics don't let these bitter old medics push you away. The fire service is very rewarding. Just expect to be held to a high standard, and not rewarded for it.

Good luck

Why do you say the fire service is rewarding but being to a higher standard isn't?

Even if a service is not known for providing care to a higher standard, you should hold yourself to the higher standard to provide quality care which the public you serve deserves. Too many FFs have thought as your statement about not getting rewarded and then fail at providing quality patient care if they feel it is a waste of time when no "rewards" are given to them. Those are the ones who have no desire to do patient care and give FF/Paramedics a bad reputation. Providing quality patient care to a higher standard should be a reward in itself.

If his goal is only to get on with a FD then there is no reason to quit Frito-Lay while getting his EMT as well as the Paramedic cert. Most FDs don't care about previous experience as long as you have the desired certs on the application. In this economy,especially in CA with the unemployment rate at almost 13%, I would not give up a job right now. Considering some city FDs like Oakland in Northern CA had over 10,000 applicants applying for 20 FF openings, his chances of getting hired might be slim to none. Even a Paramedic cert might not give him an advantage since medic mills are pushing out many new grads whose only desire is to become a FF. He may have to keep reapplying at many departments for the next 20 years or relocate to where they are desperate. That may mean working for a really bad department or living in an area that is not desirable.

Now if he really wanted to be a Paramedic, he could get his EMT while at his current job and work parttime on an ambulance until he found a good location to relocate to. He could also pick up some college classes while doing this. Taking the EMT and a few extra courses at a community college in CA can be a bargain with the reasonable tuition. Then, when he finds a job in another area that also has a good Paramedic program, he can make his move.

Edited March 6, 2010 by VentMedic

[LyonN]

Its the pay i am talking about. Doing good patient care and helping people is most definitely the rewarding part, and to me it is very much worth the 30k pay decrease. The truth is, I wouldn't do this job if I didn't have that reward. but i would not have my second job if paramedics were financially rewarded as they should be.

[paramedicmike]

So it's worth it to take a 30K pay cut but paramedics should be financially rewarded better?

Do you see the conflict in your position?

And do you see how the fire service is directly affecting that conflict?

[LyonN]

Yea I see the conflict. I don't see how the fire service is affecting it please explain.

I love my job, it keeps me motivated, I enjoy doing patient care, learning as much as i can, I enjoy the fact that I work on X mas out in the weather, and that my desk is a gurney. but these rewards do not pay the bills, and regardless of what anyone says there is that need for money.

just so you know I am thinking of going to PA school, and if i do I will continue to work as a full time as a paramedic/"pumper monkey" just because of that reward. Money is not everything, but it is something.

[paramedicmike]

With the fire service demanding paramedic certifications as a prerequisite for hire/employment, they've created a glut of paramedics. Depending on the market this could be hundreds or thousands who all sit around and wait for a department to hire a few people. From the department's perspective, they don't have to pay much because they know there are 500 other people lined up to take the job of the one person who just left. They've created a quantity over quality situation. As such, they don't have to pay people what they're worth.

We won't get into the fact that most EMS providers are so disgustingly undereducated that many don't deserve what they're getting paid now. There are plenty of other threads/discussions in these forums touching on this topic.

It is a far cry from thinking about doing something to actually doing it. There are so many EMS providers who are thinking about going to nursing/PA/medical school. The vast majority can't get past the thinking part. And if you think, if even for a second, that you're going to work your way as a FF/paramedic through PA school you should go back to thinking about doing something else as it's pretty obvious you have no idea what is actually involved in the educational process.

[VentMedic]

Yea I see the conflict. I don't see how the fire service is affecting it please explain.

I love my job, it keeps me motivated, I enjoy doing patient care, learning as much as i can, I enjoy the fact that I work on X mas out in the weather, and that my desk is a gurney. but these rewards do not pay the bills, and regardless of what anyone says there is that need for money.

just so you know I am thinking of going to PA school, and if i do I will continue to work as a full time as a paramedic/"pumper monkey" just because of that reward. Money is not everything, but it is something.

Are you going to give up your career as a FF if you do complete the Masters degree plus a specialty residency to be a PA?

In over 40 years EMS has be the only health care profession to not change anything for its education requirements and it has largely been due to the resistance of the FDs. As long as Paramedic education is measured by a few hours of training, it is easy for the FDs to churn out Paramedics from a back room mill to put these new medics on a truck when they decide they want to get into the EMS business. Thus, to some fire department administrations, the Paramedic is not much more than a little more first aid training above EMT. The protocols will reflect that. Even entire states such as California have modeled their scope of practice around FDs which is not flattering by the Fire-EMS examples they used. Also, when some FDs actually get a medical director who wants to hold them accountable as medical professionals, they find ways to get rid of him/her.

While there are exceptional Fire based EMS departments out there, even the ones which had an excellent reputation at one time now have had their abilities scrutinized by making every FF become a Paramedic. Forcing someone to do something they have no interest in weakens the system. There are no similarities with medicine and fire fighting. Many years ago (1970s and early 80s)before greed took over, the FDs did recognize this and actually were supportive of Paramedics getting the 2 year degree and only those who had an interest in medicine rode the FD ambulances.

As paramedicmike already stated, the FDs in my area may get over 1000 applications for 5 FF positions and to be competitive, most will already have their Paramedic cert even if they have never worked at one or have no interest in medicine.