IAFF versus EMS

[Just Plain Ruff]

We read on this forum so much about how Fire is beginning to kill EMS.

We rant and rave about how it's not fair or it's just wrong that Fire is coming in and taking over EMS. Everyone knows my feelings regarding fire medics and plain medics. Dual role medics and single role medics. Fire based ems versus private single duty ems and I'm not going to entertain any more bashing of either on this thread. Do so and this thread will be locked if admin will allow it.

My question is this:

There are those on this forum who are Absolutely against fire based ems. They are absolutely against Fire running EMS.

My question is this. What are you currently doing to spread the word and helping people in the communities know which is a better fit for them? Are you just coming here and venting and bitching about this or are you actively doing something about this crisis?

I don't want any bashing of any type of service, I don't want the standard over done lines about how bad fire based ems is. I want real solutions and real ideas.

[spenac]

My question is this. What are you currently doing to spread the word and helping people in the communities know which is a better fit for them? Are you just coming here and venting and bitching about this or are you actively doing something about this crisis?

I to would like to see the response to that. In my immediate area there are not really any paid fire based EMS so I have only been able to moan and groan on the internet based on things I have seen from a limited number of fire based systems I have seen. As of late I have tried to focus more on patient care rather than one type of EMS is better than another.

[tniuqs]

'Ruffems'

There are those on this forum who are Absolutely against fire based ems. They are absolutely against Fire running EMS.

I am for EMS running Fire Departments, EMS has far more call volume logic dictates they should. If one looks to the media justification by IAFF it is very much based and dependent on the argument that Fire Services provide a "faster" response time.

The clock does not stop when a Medic contacts the patient it just starts the health care clock, and very rarely is it mentioned the huge cost differences operationally. Quite difficult to transport patients on the ladder truck I have found.

So is EMS health care or public safety ?

My question is this. What are you currently doing to spread the word and helping people in the communities know which is a better fit for them? Are you just coming here and venting and bitching about this or are you actively doing something about this crisis?

First off in Kanukistan AB we have very few FIRE Medical based services and where they do exist have a huge $$$$$ tax base, the rural Volunteer Fire services do not have the funding to even consider this option (besides we do not have a lot of igloos fires)

Looking to my personal geographical data (this small town has 4 fire trucks with an average call volume of 30 calls a year) and zero ambulance for a population base of 4000. The closest AMBO is 20 minutes away (only 3) another community and in that area there is 12 fire trucks in their own hall. So 3 Ambos to 16 and then throw in the call volume ... seems to be some inequality here ? Could this be a reason for some controversy ... well it is.

Quoting the past EMT member ... asy:

"The Elephant sits where it wants too"

IAFF is a huge international organization, long time established "terms of agreement" with "trustworthy" political figures.

I don't want any bashing of any type of service, I don't want the standard over done lines about how bad fire based ems is. I want real solutions and real ideas.

Perhaps the reputation is deserved ?

cheers

Edited March 16, 2010 by tniuqs

[Just Plain Ruff]

IAFF is a huge international organization, long time established "terms of agreement" with "trustworthy" political figures.

Perhaps the reputation is deserved ?

cheers

So maybe the reputation is deserved but be that as it may, what are we doing as a group or individuals about this supposed crisis? We can debate how good it is for Ems or how bad it is for EMS but we need to stop complaining here and start making it known publicly. No one wants to hear people complain unless they have a plan of action to accompany their complaining.

[tniuqs]

Am I complaining ? like again ?

Just my hood but we do not have a tangible crisis Fire vs EMS, moreover just poor government management and intervention in EMS "restructuring" this is far more a pressing issue.

Frankly any improved EMS delivery of service would be an advantage for my community BUT the local Chief has sworn up and down that NO Ambulance will have a bay in HIS Fire Hall. This fossil is not a team player or interested in improving Health services to the community, in this instance he is just protecting his own turf.(very old school)

Ruff ... answer the question please:

So is EMS health care or public safety ?

cheers

[Just Plain Ruff]

Am I complaining ? like again ?

Just my hood but we do not have a tangible crisis Fire vs EMS, moreover just poor government management and intervention in EMS "restructuring" this is far more a pressing issue.

Frankly any improved EMS delivery of service would be an advantage for my community BUT the local Chief has sworn up and down that NO Ambulance will have a bay in HIS Fire Hall. This fossil is not a team player or interested in improving Health services to the community, in this instance he is just protecting his own turf.(very old school)

Ruff ... answer the question please:

So is EMS health care or public safety ?

cheers

I think it's mostly health care but there is a element of public safety in it but If pressed I'd say we are almost fully healthcare.

[spenac]

Am I complaining ? like again ?

Just my hood but we do not have a tangible crisis Fire vs EMS, moreover just poor government management and intervention in EMS "restructuring" this is far more a pressing issue.

Frankly any improved EMS delivery of service would be an advantage for my community BUT the local Chief has sworn up and down that NO Ambulance will have a bay in HIS Fire Hall. This fossil is not a team player or interested in improving Health services to the community, in this instance he is just protecting his own turf.(very old school)

Ruff ... answer the question please:

So is EMS health care or public safety ?

cheers

How come are you not just answering the question asked by the OP? With your comments and opinions this topic looks to be quickly headed to another us vs them when the OP was just asking what steps are you doing to help which ever side you believe in? Are you trying to educate the public? etc. I personally would like to see everyone that whines and cries about it be honest and answer. I did and I admitted all I do is whine and cry on forums. Based on your comments about extremes in call volume vs equipment in your area are you telling the public? Are you showing them the facts? Or are you like me just whining and crying on this forum?

[Richard B the EMT]

This is some coincidence, that I found this string roughly 4 and a half hours from the start of the 14th anniversary of NYC Health and Hospitals Corporation EMS being moved into FDNY management (March 17, 1996, effective at 0001 Hours NYC Local time).

My only complaint was, at that time, Fire Fighting and Emergency Medical Services, were, and are, different "animals" if you'll allow the analogy. I didn't think FDNY management could handle EMS, but we had good top EMS chiefs, even those whom I personally didn't like, who explained to the FDNY Top Brass what we did, and why we did it. We did have some reinventing of the wheel, but each now to their specialty, and everyone does their jobs, and do them (usually) well.

Again, we have no personnel (IN HOUSE!) who do both Fire Fighting and (aside from Certified First Responder-Defibrillator engine company personnel) EMS work, even if they do so in volunteer FDs and/or VAS/VAC agencies while not on duty and receiving an NYC paycheck.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Richard B the EMT

[DwayneEMTP]

Mostly I've just made hosemonkey jokes until Fire won't talk to me or help me lift fat people anymore....

I speak to my coworkers about the politics involved in in the ruckus between fire and EMS but most of the medics I work with are either fire based part timers, volunteer fire, or ex fire working full time now as single role medics, so my opinions are not terribly popular.

This really isn't an issue that 'someone' can do something about. It will take years at least to build the organization necessary to get any message out that the IAFF can't squash. But continuing to talk, continuing to educate ourselves is not a bad first step while we wait for the Moses that will lead us out of our Israel of mediocrity and disassociation.

Dwayne

[rock_shoes]

There are those on this forum who are Absolutely against fire based ems. They are absolutely against Fire running EMS.

Admittedly, I do belong to that group so I’ll do my best to keep it civil.

My question is this. What are you currently doing to spread the word and helping people in the communities know which is a better fit for them? Are you just coming here and venting and bitching about this or are you actively doing something about this crisis?

Our local FD is a “paid on call” service (quasi volunteer kind of deal). They have never made any attempt to take over ambulance services nor have they ever indicated they have any such intentions. Because they are “paid on call”, no one in the local FD is a member of the IAFF. When I tell others about why I believe Fire based EMS is not in the public’s best interest that is me doing my part to abate the “crisis”. One of my biggest complaints that everyone seems to understand once explained is resource abuse. Typically “Grandma broken-hip” does not need a 4 man Pumper, 3 man Rescue, and 2 man Ambulance. “Grandma broken-hip” needs an ambulance staffed by 2 caring medical professionals. The additional 7 firefighters are all paid out of the public purse. In short, whenever I’m asked by a member of the public what I think about amalgamation with the fire service I just give them the facts. Usually the simple facts are enough to convince them fire based EMS is not in their best interest.

I don't want any bashing of any type of service, I don't want the standard over done lines about how bad fire based ems is. I want real solutions and real ideas.

The only solution for fire based EMS is the “Final Solution”! Just kidding. While in general the public is made up of sheeple easily influenced by the IAFF’s massive PR machine, people do seem to understand the dollars and cents of the situation when it is clearly explained. If your service is under threat of the IAFF machine the best way to throw a wrench into their onslaught is to make the financial truth public knowledge. I don’t know anyone who would be willing to support any kind of tax increase right now.