Obama's Healthcare Reform

[pinkemsprincess]

If I am not mistaken the penalties the government wishes to enforce for lack of health care is meant for employers. Because so many companys, like my own, REFUSE to even offer ANY kind of health care or reimbursement for the health care I carry privately.

I am definitely stuck in the "middle class" here. I also can not buy a home with my credit if I do not have a substantial down payment. Even though my rent costs me more than a mortgage would. WTF?! How does that make sense?

At any rate, I have medical bills, a lot. They are very expensive, because I have to carry my own coverage. My parents are about to lose their coverage. My mom developed a cancerous tumor on her kidney and had to have the kidney removed. My dad found out this year he is diabetic. They also have some other health concerns. As they should since they are getting older. My uncle who is mentally retarded, is apparently not disabled enough to have medicaid. Really? But the pyschos I pick up off the street are mentally ill enough?

This has to be better. We don't have a choice but to try to make it work. What we have now does not work. I worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield, those people are the devil. And someone mentioned earlier about how other people's healthcare costs raises your premiums, absolutely. You better fucking believe it.

What I have not heard is pharmaceutical reform. Ticket number 2 for your insurance premium cost. I would actually say it is more accurately number 1. When you have prescription coverage, as I do, you are lucky enough to not absorb the entire cost of that drug. But someone has to. It doesn't get written off. Your insurance pays for it.

I had to get medicaid when I was pregnant. I have private insurance. I didn't have maternity coverage. Nor could I afford to spend the rest of my life paying the thousands to pay that off. I don't make as much in 1 year as that whole 9 months cost.

So, yeah I pay for those leeches I pick up and take to the ER for no good reason. But at some point we have to consider everyone else. Me, I have insurance, its not great, but I fit it into my budget. My uncle is on my mom's policy, barely. They already have gotten the letters about "undertmined future coverage", she pays for coverage. PRIVATELY! How is that fair?

Okay, so we pay out the nose so we can have REDUCED health bills. But the crack head with out any coverage at all, pleads with the hospital to get a reduced bill because he has no job. That does suck.

Again, can this option maybe be better? Really?! It has to. I have family that travel to Mexico and Canada for health care. Because like someone else said, it is still cheaper.

I don't think now is the right time either, but as our society continues to plummit uneducated into a sea of ignorance, when will there be a good time?

[funkytomtom]

I would love to hear from the Dr.s in this forum as well cause there point of view would be nice to know....but like I stated when I first started this thread "first do no harm" I may not be cert'd yet but still I would treat the pt. no matter what the commander in chief said, yes he is the leader of this nation but he is ultimately not my boss and unless someone is holding a gun to my head saying do this and don't do this, that pt. will get the best treatment that I can provide at my level. Just for the record I am not cert'd as I said but I do have training as an EMT-B and as such I am still covered by the Good Samaritan Law

when exactly did Obama tell you not to care for someone/some subset of patients?

[DwayneEMTP]

Healthcare is a right, not something you earn.

I'm truly glad to hear you say that, because now I don't need insurance. I simply need enough money to fly to NZ, right? Screw health insurance, I'm going to bank a few thousand dollars and then if I ever get terribly sick I'll fly over there and exercise my human right to top notch medical care despite my inability to pay. Thanks man!!

Until the US gets that through thier head, I don't think you guys are gonna get very far.

Yeah, we do hope to some day claw our way out of our mud huts and rub some sticks together for fire or something...

I'm a little surprised to hear about the "joy" the Aussies and Kiwis exude when describing the euphoria of giving basic human needs to all. I worked with many people from each country...and don't you both have indigenous populations that you're really not so friggin' happy to be supplying with 'basic human needs?' Seems like I might have heard something like that whispered from time to time...

And I was once physically prevented from hitting a male Canadian nurse in Afg when I was told that if a double traumatic Afghani amputee wanted proper pain management four hours post op that 'perhaps he can show me his insurance card?" Easily the least compassionate medicine I witnessed there came from Canada. Is this a symptom of socialized medicine? I don't know, but if it is, then it certainly should be discussed, shouldn't it? (I have only my small little snapshot of Afg NATO medicine, so it's certainly possible that the crews I witnessed were some type of fluke. I simply know that I didn't witness like flukes from any other countries.)

Now, I have friends that I love from each of these countries. My point isn't to degrade them but to suggest that if we're actually going to discuss there merits and detriments of socialized medicine then perhaps we might be better served to amputate the nonsensical Kumbaya (sp) dialog from the discussion.

Throughout this discussion we've allowed the countries with socialized medicine to present it as if everyone there walks into well lit clinics and hospitals where the staff is waiting for them with a dethorned red rose just gushing over the opportunity to serve them immediately.

"OOhhh that mole does look nasty. It should be removed. Well, we have an opening this afternoon if that will suit your purposes?"

"Mr. Jones, you will need your knee replaced before we'll be able to get you walking without that terrible pain. Will the day after tomorrow be good for you? Awesome! We'll send someone to pick you up!"

Can those of you that come from countries with socialized medicine tell me honestly if these are the conversations you're overhearing when you go to the doctor? This is not the description that I've been given by you all in the past. Why suddenly do we wish to pretend that it's the reality now?

We've been through page after page of "We have socialized medicine because we hold basic human rights more dearly than you do!" Any chance we can call this thread a no bullshit zone from this point forward and talk scratch?

Dwayne

[the_rogueEMT]

when exactly did Obama tell you not to care for someone/some subset of patients?

your right he did not say that, but in my opinion that is what it will come to with the gov't paying the bill for the most part, and like I said before yes I am not cert'd so I don't know everything per se in the medical field but if I were cert'd as an EMT-B my first responsibility it to the pt. and no one else unless they are in danger and they are at the scene of any given call I may be on. But I am not cert'd so...but if I see something happen I will step up and care for that pt. till better help arrives.

[emtannie]

Well, Dwayne, for starters – you should have punched that Canadian nurse, and then kicked him in the tickets while he was down. I would be ok with that. (if you were Canadian, it would also be appropriate to pull his jersey over his head and beat him with a hockey stick…)

Socialized medicine is not without its problems, and those who say it has no drawbacks are wrong. I could list pages of issues we have here with our medication system… oh wait… I think I have already been involved in some of those threads…

Every system has its parasites and abusers, from the addicts we have all brought in to the ER, to those who call an ambulance because they don’t want to pay for a taxi, to the regular on the Jerry Springer show “Who the Baby Daddy” with 6 kids. I don’t think that will change regardless of the health care system provided – abusers will always find the loopholes.

From what I have seen, and I am sure I have mentioned it before, the thing I truly like about socialized medicine is coverage for children. If I had a child here, who needed major surgery, there would be no question of “does my insurance cover” or “can I afford it.”

I have seen, as I have a good friend in the US, who does not have that comfort. Although both parents work full time (and the husband works 2 jobs), their son who had heart surgery at a very young age, again needs heart surgery. Their insurance will cover 75% of it, but they will still have to come up with $50,000+ of their own funds. They are currently able to re-mortgage their home to cover this, but what if they weren’t yet in that financial situation? What if they were a younger couple just starting out? How do you not provide care for your child because you can’t afford it? Then what?

I have talked to other US members on this site, one of whom explained it to me very well. The independence from government, and self-sufficiency is every important to US citizens, and “I had that child, it is my responsibility to care for it.” I get that, and I respect and understand that position. I just don’t think it is possible to be prepared for the worst possible scenario, and the costs involved. I just wish that people didn’t have to forego medical treatment for their child because of financial reasons, when the parents are middle-class employed individuals – I couldn’t imagine how that would feel.

[DwayneEMTP]

I have seen, as I have a good friend in the US, who does not have that comfort. Although both parents work full time (and the husband works 2 jobs), their son who had heart surgery at a very young age, again needs heart surgery. Their insurance will cover 75% of it, but they will still have to come up with $50,000+ of their own funds. They are currently able to re-mortgage their home to cover this, but what if they weren't yet in that financial situation? What if they were a younger couple just starting out? How do you not provide care for your child because you can't afford it? Then what?

I think that this is where people get confused about American healthcare. This child would not be denied life saving surgery. Would his parents be responsible afterwards for the amount of money that wasn't covered by their insurance? They would, as they should be. This child would have it's surgery and the parents would pay for it for a long time, as is their responsibility for creating a child.

Dylan costs me a significant amount of money secondary to his autism as well as because Barbara and I have chosen for her to stay home and care for him, as well as me of course, which keeps her from earning an extra income. We have very few shiny things, have never owned a home or a new car, we live very simply because of the decisions we've made as well as the blessing of having Dylan in our lives. We decided to have a child, our child is autistic, why should my neighbors be responsible for those costs? If Dylan needs life altering healthcare, or any type of necessary care whatsoever, he will receive it and we will add the expense to the financial burden we carry now, and I won't complain for a moment. It will take a while to pay, but I won't go to jail, they won't kidnap my boy, life will go on. Will it go on without the discomfort that sometimes comes with the freedom of being responsible for our own decisions? Of course not, and it shouldn't.

I have talked to other US members on this site, one of whom explained it to me very well. The independence from government, and self-sufficiency is every important to US citizens....

You really only have to look as far as Waco Texas to see why it's difficult for many of us to give over any more power to our government than absolutely necessary. Some of that, at least for people like me is just bullshit stubbornness, but much of it is also a true desire to remain in charge of our own destiny. As a society we've often done what we felt was kind, we gave classes of people basic human needs, food, housing, and healthcare when they couldn't care for themselves and we now have huge American populations that are no longer capable of caring for themselves. We've got kids in our inner cities, and elsewhere of course, that come from 5 generations of adults that have never had to earn an income. Learning to have the government care for us, many of us believe, is to forget to know how to care for ourselves. As well, anything that the government gives, it can also take away or hold hostage to force it's other desires.

I would personally rather go hungry than trade you your sandwich for a stick that you may later choose to beat me with. Would I rather keep my stick if it meant that Dylan had to starve instead. No, then I'd be forced by my emotions to take my beating. But that is not a decision that I'm forced to make here. If it was as you fear, that we have a country full of sick and dying poor children then I can't imagine the argument that I'd make to you on this subject, but that just simply isn't the case outside of fictional books and popular television.

I am grateful for your thoughts and opinions. As always you've shown not only to have an intelligent opinion but a refreshing curiosity to explore the subject instead of simply express a previously held opinion...

You're ok for a non American... :-)

Thanks for your thoughts girl. As always they give me pause and make me dig...

Dwayne

[the_rogueEMT]

emtannie--> I have talked to other US members on this site, one of whom explained it to me very well. The independence from government, and self-sufficiency is every important to US citizens, and “I had that child, it is my responsibility to care for it.” I get that, and I respect and understand that position. I just don’t think it is possible to be prepared for the worst possible scenario, and the costs involved. I just wish that people didn’t have to forego medical treatment for their child because of financial reasons, when the parents are middle-class employed individuals – I couldn’t imagine how that would feel.

I agree with that persons statement that if they had the child they should take care of it. Also like many Americans I admit our healthcare does need to be changed but not to the point where the gov't controls 1/6 of the U.S. economy. Pres. Obama does have a good idea don't get me wrong I just think he went about fixing it the wrong way...

everyone has good ideas it is how we go about putting them into action that makes them good or bad ideas

<--not sure who said that but I think that fits in this situation. DwayneEMTP is also right look at Waco. and like the uncle of a certain web-slinging superhero "with great power comes great responsibility Edited March 24, 2010 by the_rogueEMT

[Dustdevil]

ROFL! Congressmen who voted for the healthcare scam are getting death threats now!

Maybe it's time to remind them what the Second Amendment was written for.

[Richard B the EMT]

No system is perfect, and even the best can stand for improvement of some sort at some time.

[Lone Star]

ROFL! Congressmen who voted for the healthcare scam are getting death threats now!

Maybe it's time to remind them what the Second Amendment was written for.

Could it be that the cash strapped/economically suffering American public is finally getting tired of getting bent over by the elected representation?

Elect me, and when I get to Washington, I promise not to do what all the others have been doing to you! (nudge nudge, wink wink)

Clinton, on his way out of office, gave the American 'working class' a great big "Screw you!" by signing NAFTA and GATT into law. Now we're seeing the fruition of those laws, as we watch our jobs sail overseas; and the federal government is throwing us deeper and deeper in debt by coming up with these 'social reforms', and obviously no one took into account that the working class can't afford to lose any more of their piddly paychecks.

Economics 101 says that if you have a 'working class' that isn't working, the economy will collapse. Add into that the corporate greed, and you've got a recipe for almost immediate disaster. The elected yahoos in Washington seem to think that by starting all these 'giveaway programs', that the economy will magically pick back up. Well, when you're only tickling 'special parts' of the economy, you can't expect some raging hard-on of a recovery.

While the insurance industry needed overhauled, and the health care industry needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and given a good beating, this is NOT the way to bring the costs down and make it more accessible!

*Edited for glaring grammatical errors*

Edited March 24, 2010 by Lone Star