Obama's Healthcare Reform

[funkytomtom]

You know what? I am damn sick of all the exaggeration and violent talk! DAMN SICK OF IT! More profanity would be included if this were not an internet forum. But seriously people? I am ashamed that some of us are now cheering on death threats? Saying Obama has now ruined the whole country? Revolution is the only answer?

I didn't see anyone b1tching like this when the federal gov't saw its largest expansion ever under Bush. Now some of you sound like chicken little with talk of how "the sky is falling!"

I don't necessarily agree with Obama's bill or many elements of his presidency, but as an EMS professional, citizen, and human being, I know how to appropriately express my views and push for change. I am disgusted to hear some of the talk on here. You need to realize there are two sides to every issue, maybe try to look at the other side of things, or the positive in this very bill. More help for children with pre-existing conditions gets my full support!

I DO think there needs to be HEALTHY debate about the economic implications and things I don't personally care for such as cuts in care for senior citizens, but come on people, lets grow up, clean up our act, and stop these INFANTILE EXPLANATIONS of complex issues.

This does not apply to all posters or even posters who are against the bill. If it applies to you, you probably already know it.

[Asclepius]

You know what? I am damn sick of all the exaggeration and violent talk! DAMN SICK OF IT! More profanity would be included if this were not an internet forum. But seriously people? I am ashamed that some of us are now cheering on death threats? Saying Obama has now ruined the whole country? Revolution is the only answer?

Excellent, then you're as angry as most of the rest of the country is. Revolution is not the ONLY answer, but they're not giving us many alternatives. There is no exaggeration in any of this. This is serious and perilous times for us. Obama is the worst president in American history. Congress has the worst approval ratings in American history since polls started being recorded. This isn't a handful of fanatics that are angry...this is the OVERWHELMING majority.

I didn't see anyone b1tching like this when the federal gov't saw its largest expansion ever under Bush. Now some of you sound like chicken little with talk of how "the sky is falling!"

Bush didn't actively work to socialize America. Besides...we're not talking about Bush anymore. Bush's time has come and gone. We can't undo anything about the Bush presidency. He needs to stop being everyone's answer to what Obama is doing to destroy this nation.

I don't necessarily agree with Obama's bill or many elements of his presidency, but as an EMS professional, citizen, and human being, I know how to appropriately express my views and push for change

.

I think we all do too Funky....the problem is that we're under a regime right now. We have a government that has gone rogue and is acting contrary to the will of the people. We're being violated.

I am disgusted to hear some of the talk on here. You need to realize there are two sides to every issue, maybe try to look at the other side of things, or the positive in this very bill.

Maybe you need to more fully read the posts in this thread. We've all said there are a couple of things in this that don't sound bad. I like that insurance companies will not be able to hold a pre-existing condition against someone. That part of it is deeply overshadowed, however, by the rest of this terrible bill.

I DO think there needs to be HEALTHY debate about the economic implications and things I don't personally care for such as cuts in care for senior citizens, but come on people, lets grow up, clean up our act, and stop these INFANTILE EXPLANATIONS of complex issues.

I'm not cleaning up anything. This government has gone hostile towards the people. I'm advocating the removal of this governing body. I'd prefer it not happen by means of anything violent, but I guess that will be up to them. Violence is rarely ever the answer to anything in life. But sometimes people have to defend themselves, their principles and values. This government has nobody but themselves to blame for the threats they're receiving. They chose to arrogantly blow off the masses.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Asclepius

[the_rogueEMT]

You know what? I am damn sick of all the exaggeration and violent talk! DAMN SICK OF IT! More profanity would be included if this were not an internet forum. But seriously people? I am ashamed that some of us are now cheering on death threats? Saying Obama has now ruined the whole country? Revolution is the only answer? I didn't see anyone b1tching like this when the federal gov't saw its largest expansion ever under Bush. Now some of you sound like chicken little with talk of how "the sky is falling!" I don't necessarily agree with Obama's bill or many elements of his presidency, but as an EMS professional, citizen, and human being, I know how to appropriately express my views and push for change. I am disgusted to hear some of the talk on here. You need to realize there are two sides to every issue, maybe try to look at the other side of things, or the positive in this very bill. More help for children with pre-existing conditions gets my full support! I DO think there needs to be HEALTHY debate about the economic implications and things I don't personally care for such as cuts in care for senior citizens, but come on people, lets grow up, clean up our act, and stop these INFANTILE EXPLANATIONS of complex issues. This does not apply to all posters or even posters who are against the bill. If it applies to you, you probably already know it.

Tom is right, just because you don't like the bill that was passed does not mean go and throw actual rocks and that persons office or even send mail with baby powder in it. What that does mean is that in November when some of those ppl who voted for the bill are up for re-election you vote them out of office. Like Glenn Beck said in one of his shows this week "Game On Progressives, we will see you at the polls this November." So don't stoop to the level of actually throwing stuff or sending death threats cause if you do then your only proving that the left is right. that the TEA Party goers and 9/12ers are nothing than a bunch of vigilanties out for revenge just cause there representative did not vote how they want. Ghandi once said (and forgive me if I misquote) "Use truth as your anvil, and peace as your hammer." That is what you do, you hold to your beliefs and do so in a peaceful way.

[Asclepius]

Tom is right, just because you don't like the bill that was passed does not mean go and throw actual rocks and that persons office or even send mail with baby powder in it. What that does mean is that in November when some of those ppl who voted for the bill are up for re-election you vote them out of office. Like Glenn Beck said in one of his shows this week "Game On Progressives, we will see you at the polls this November." So don't stoop to the level of actually throwing stuff or sending death threats cause if you do then your only proving that the left is right. that the TEA Party goers and 9/12ers are nothing than a bunch of vigilanties out for revenge just cause there representative did not vote how they want. Ghandi once said (and forgive me if I misquote) "Use truth as your anvil, and peace as your hammer." That is what you do, you hold to your beliefs and do so in a peaceful way.

Hey, I'm not saying I condone the violence. I'm saying that I am angry enough, and I rarely ever get angry, that I can understand it.

[the_rogueEMT]

Hey, I'm not saying I condone the violence. I'm saying that I am angry enough, and I rarely ever get angry, that I can understand it.

I am there with you and there are those on this site who would think I would be right throwing actually throwing rocks cause of "actions" that I "did" in the chat room. But contrary to popular belief I am a non-violent person, although I do get angry like everyone else in the world but it takes a h3ll of a lot to set me off. Yes I am close but at the same time I am not if that makes since.

[scubanurse]

It's my opinion that the spirit of this discussion has diverged from what was originally intended. It is no longer a cool-level-headed conversation between professions and emotions are running high on all fronts.

Let's all just take a deep breath and see this forum for what it is, an internet forum. Is it really worth getting your BP elevated to debate with anonymous users? Wouldn't your efforts (on both sides of the issue) be better served taking action (non-violent of course) to express your views. There seems to be a lot of talk lately, but very little action to do something to alter this course of history.

[Asclepius]

It's my opinion that the spirit of this discussion has diverged from what was originally intended. It is no longer a cool-level-headed conversation between professions and emotions are running high on all fronts.

Let's all just take a deep breath and see this forum for what it is, an internet forum. Is it really worth getting your BP elevated to debate with anonymous users? Wouldn't your efforts (on both sides of the issue) be better served taking action (non-violent of course) to express your views. There seems to be a lot of talk lately, but very little action to do something to alter this course of history.

I'm very actively involved in politics. I'm cool-headed. I still think this is a calm discussion. I just take offense to being told that anything expressed to demonstrate the level of the anger the American people are experiencing as "infantile." This is a very serious matter on so many different levels and requires our full attention. The POTUS was giving a speech today and making fun of all of us who recognize the threat this bill and the manner in which it was passed poses to every single American. It was deeply immature on his part and just continues to rub salt into the deep wounds they've already caused. It's disgusting. He's disgusting.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Asclepius

[Just Plain Ruff]

I'm very actively involved in politics. I'm cool-headed. I still think this is a calm discussion. I just take offense to being told that anything expressed to demonstrate the level of the anger the American people are experiencing as "infantile." This is a very serious matter on so many different levels and requires our full attention. The POTUS was giving a speech today and making fun of all of us who recognize the threat this bill and the manner in which it was passed poses to every single American. It was deeply immature on his part and just continues to rub salt into the deep wounds they've already caused. It's disgusting. He's disgusting.

Yep, it's called gloating. He's so proud of himself that he and his compatriots forced this one on us that he thinks he's invincible. Well you know what, He's NOT!!!

He's not invincible when it comes to re-election - Even though the average american has the attention span and memory of a GNAT, the american people will be watching what happens over the next 7 months. If this bill turns out like I think it is going to, then the american people are going to respond in kind (they screwed us, we're gonna screw them) and many of those who voted for the bill will be out and the one who signed the bill is goign to be out too.

Unfortunately, at this time do the republicans have anyone better than Obama yet? I don't think so.

There is a line in one of my favorite songs "No matter what you've heard, Impossible is not a word, it's just a reason, for someone not to try" which fits here. It's not impossible to get them out, but its just a reason no to try.

[HERBIE1]

Yep, it's called gloating. He's so proud of himself that he and his compatriots forced this one on us that he thinks he's invincible. Well you know what, He's NOT!!!

He's not invincible when it comes to re-election - Even though the average american has the attention span and memory of a GNAT, the american people will be watching what happens over the next 7 months. If this bill turns out like I think it is going to, then the american people are going to respond in kind (they screwed us, we're gonna screw them) and many of those who voted for the bill will be out and the one who signed the bill is goign to be out too.

Unfortunately, at this time do the republicans have anyone better than Obama yet? I don't think so.

There is a line in one of my favorite songs "No matter what you've heard, Impossible is not a word, it's just a reason, for someone not to try" which fits here. It's not impossible to get them out, but its just a reason no to try.

They key here is to see what happens with the Tea Party movement. If they decide to break off from the GOP and field their own candidate, the Democrats will retain control of Congress in 2010 and the POTUS in 2012. If they decide to come to an agreement with the GOP, their presence could prove to be a force to be reckoned with. Before HCR passed, we saw several states express their displeasure with the Democratic party- even in heavily Democratic Massachusetts. The reasons for this displeasure however may be because they feel the HCR bill did not go far enough left to suit them, NOT because they were unhappy with the party in general. I do however think many people feel that Obama and the Democrats are ignoring what the people really want. I read a poll that said health care reform was the 4th or 5th most important issue to Americans, yet Democrats spent the last year focusing on it. That singular focus, despite the will of the people, may cost Obama and the Democrats their majority as well as a second term for Obama.

[funkytomtom]

I'm very actively involved in politics. I'm cool-headed. I still think this is a calm discussion. I just take offense to being told that anything expressed to demonstrate the level of the anger the American people are experiencing as "infantile." This is a very serious matter on so many different levels and requires our full attention. The POTUS was giving a speech today and making fun of all of us who recognize the threat this bill and the manner in which it was passed poses to every single American. It was deeply immature on his part and just continues to rub salt into the deep wounds they've already caused. It's disgusting. He's disgusting.

I didn't say being angry was infantile, I just said that some of the explanations given behind hatred of the bill ARE.

And when you say "American People," you have to realize you don't speak for all of us. I just did a quick search to find this: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/25/polls-indicate-support-for-health-care-reform-has-increased-since-sunday-vote/?fbid=ty7Kb9sbz8G Now realize that YES the numbers are not in support of the bill in some of these stats, but some of those number don't support the bill because they don't think it goes far enough. And that still leaves millions who support the bill. Again, not saying that makes it right, but from what I hear on this forum, I would expect militias roaming the streets. There are A LOT of angry people, but there are A LOT of people who either aren't angry or aren't angry for the same reasons as you.

You ARE perfectly entitled to have your opinions and I think some of them are valid. The things I have a problem with are A) death threats, (I guess B ) makes a cool face) talk about revolution, and C) thoroughly opinionated people with thoroughly uninformed opinions. And I'm not saying all the dissenting voices are uniformed, but the tone of this discussion is really polarizing (from some people). The reality is that the way forward is going to be one of compromise, not of deafness to the idea's of others. BOTH sides are guilty on that one.

My problems with the bill: spending, cuts for seniors, and lack of tort reform.

What I like: more people covered and some needed regulation of insurance companies.

Still not sure about: whether or not this will actually work out as a "pay now, save later" scheme in reality.

I know we don't want to talk about history, but even besides Bush, many of the big government legislation that has been successful in the past has ended up with high levels of public approval. Think social security, medicare, and medicaid. None of those programs are anywhere near perfect, but today's healthcare system is far from perfect itself.

Edited March 26, 2010 by funkytomtom