Obama's Healthcare Reform

[Just Plain Ruff]

I didn't say being angry was infantile, I just said that some of the explanations given behind hatred of the bill ARE.

And when you say "American People," you have to realize you don't speak for all of us. I just did a quick search to find this: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/25/polls-indicate-support-for-health-care-reform-has-increased-since-sunday-vote/?fbid=ty7Kb9sbz8G Now realize that YES the numbers are not in support of the bill in some of these stats, but some of those number don't support the bill because they don't think it goes far enough. And that still leaves millions who support the bill. Again, not saying that makes it right, but from what I hear on this forum, I would expect militias roaming the streets. There are A LOT of angry people, but there are A LOT of people who either aren't angry or aren't angry for the same reasons as you.

You ARE perfectly entitled to have your opinions and I think some of them are valid. The things I have a problem with are A) death threats, (I guess B ) makes a cool face) talk about revolution, and C) thoroughly opinionated people with thoroughly uninformed opinions. And I'm not saying all the dissenting voices are uniformed, but the tone of this discussion is really polarizing (from some people). The reality is that the way forward is going to be one of compromise, not of deafness to the idea's of others. BOTH sides are guilty on that one.

My problems with the bill: spending, cuts for seniors, and lack of tort reform.

What I like: more people covered and some needed regulation of insurance companies.

Still not sure about: whether or not this will actually work out as a "pay now, save later" scheme in reality.

I know we don't want to talk about history, but even besides Bush, many of the big government legislation that has been successful in the past has ended up with high levels of public approval. Think social security, medicare, and medicaid. None of those programs are anywhere near perfect, but today's healthcare system is far from perfect itself.

Let me ask two questions.

Question 1 - does anyone here think that the cost estimates will turn out to be right for this bill or are you like me, skeptical because the history of this government is to live beyond it's means. We take in less money in taxes than we put out or we would have a balanced budget or a budget surplus.

Question 2 - soon to follow but I lost my train of thought.

[the_rogueEMT]

CNN is a good news channel but frankly I don't care for that channel cause unlike Fox News (who ask the actual tough questions) all they ask (and this is just in general, i do not know if it was an actual question) "so how about them RedSox?" But I also agree that are former health care industry did need a change just not one that was jammed down our throats like this was. In my opinion Pelosi, Obama, DNC pretty much said sit down, shut up and just take it. Trust us we know whats good for you. If they do then how come they are not subject to the bills they sign into law...huh. In my opinion we should elect a whole new group or ppl in both the Senate and House. Keep those who have had only 1 term (if there is any) but everyone else just vote out. that way it will also show the DNC that WE THE PEOPLE want OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS to do what we want and not what they want. Yes the GOP all voted against the bill, Great they did what we wanted along with the hand full of Dems. Speaking of compromise, there willing to sit down with Iran but not a group of TEA Party members or 9/12ers. Whats wrong with that picture....just food for thought the last part was.

Edited March 26, 2010 by the_rogueEMT

[brentoli]

Question 1 - does anyone here think that the cost estimates will turn out to be right for this bill or are you like me, skeptical because the history of this government is to live beyond it's means. We take in less money in taxes than we put out or we would have a balanced budget or a budget surplus.

United States of America - Home to the McMansion

[the_rogueEMT]

Let me ask two questions.

Question 1 - does anyone here think that the cost estimates will turn out to be right for this bill or are you like me, skeptical because the history of this government is to live beyond it's means. We take in less money in taxes than we put out or we would have a balanced budget or a budget surplus.

Question 2 - soon to follow but I lost my train of thought.

Answer 1 - We are already in debt so why not put us more into debt. So no I personally do not think it will work out

Answer 2 - that happens to the best of us.

[Richard B the EMT]

We now have had death threats against elected officials and their families, and actual attacks on their offices with thrown bricks and pellet gunshots through windows and doors, and powder suspected originally to be anthrax delivered through the mail. We have a former candidate for vice president telling folks to "reload", which to some might be interpreted as a request for sniper attacks to those who supported the bill's passage.

Hey, people, both in this forum and beyond! Can we simply agree to disagree, and tell our elected officials to work out compromises that, while neither side will be satisfied, would actually do the least hurt and most good for the majority of US citizens?

Edited March 26, 2010 by Richard B the EMT

[Just Plain Ruff]

We now have had death threats against elected officials and their families, and actual attacks on their offices with thrown bricks and pellet gunshots through windows and doors, and powder suspected originally to be anthrax delivered through the mail. We have a former candidate for vice president telling folks to "reload", which to some might be interpreted as a request for sniper attacks to those who supported the bill's passage.

Hey, people, both in this forum and beyond! Can we simply agree to disagree, and tell our elected officials to work out compromises that, while neither side will be satisfied, would actually do the least hurt and most good for the majority of US citizens?

Back in the 1700's 1771 and beyond to be more focused, we had initially peaceful discourse. Until the various oppressive acts were passed we had somewhat peaceful discourse. AFter the oppresive acts such as the stamp act and others the founding fathers and the colonists felt they had no other choice and they rebelled. Even during the war, there were overtures of peace to Britain. But in the end, we fought, we died and we won our liberty.

I hope that this does not happen here but there are some who are advocating this. I suggest a different course other than violence because violence is well wrong.

I suggest that you support the opponents of these congressional leaders in their campaigns.

If you do not vote then you have no and I repeat NO business bitching and moaning about anything that the congress does. If you voted for the guy who lost then you can complain. If you do not make your voice heard in the halls of congress by sending letters or calling your elected reps then you can't complain too loudly.

I went to DC yesterday. I saw several members of congress. One was Senator Collins of Maine. I talked to her and urged her to work to get rid of this bad bill. She said she was working with many colleagues on this but she couldn't make any promises. I told her I was not her constituent but I was a citizen and as a citizen I was voicing my opinion.

Another person I talked to yesterday was Denny Rehberg. I didn't ask if he was a rep or a dem. I also discussed healthcare and the military and he said he was also working on a solution to the bill that was passed. I could only assume he was a republican.

I feel that I have done at least a small part in helping make my opinions known.

If you do not act then you cannot bitch.

Does anyone know the definition of insanity??? It's doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting a different result. If you only complain, and complain and complain, and you expect a different result out of your complaining but don't do anything solid then you are insane.

Actions without results are just Actions.

WE need to take back our government and that happens one ousting at a time.

Let me ask one question - Does anyone ever think that there could be a coup in our country?

[Lone Star]

As much as I hate to say it, I'm almost expecting a civil uprising in this country.

During his campaign, Barack Obama made the comment: "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Unfortunately, our present Presidnent is pushing the American people to fulfill this 'prophecy'.

With the Obama Democrats willing to give this country and everything we've worked for to this point to every illegal immigrant, it's no wonder that the American public is getting fed up! Even those that were so happy to suupport his 'Yes We Can' campaign because of the hope for change are now sorry they cast their vote in his favor.

I was very vocal about my opinion on how Obama wasn't what this country needed, and was ridiculed as a 'reactionist' and accused of trying to 'stir the pot' when it wasn't necessary. Unfortunately, I've been proven right, he is 'no good for this country'!

Obama spent the at least the first six months trying to undo any positive changes that Bush made, so that he could appear to have 'done more', but about the only thing he's done is run us deeper in debt, and has stuck it deeper into the American public than any other President before him.

Now that he's done more damage than any President before him, I'm curious to see how he thinks he's going to reverse it, and start actually doing something GOOD for the American public!

I've posted it before, but it still seems relevant and applicable:

[the_rogueEMT]

all I have to say...and even then I can't take credit for it...so as Glenn Beck says "Game on progressives, we'll see you at the polls this November."

[HERBIE1]

I hate to repeat myself, but...

The problem we have now is that we have elected the most liberal president in recent memory. If anyone knows his background, who his advisers are, and the place they all came from, they would have a better understanding of WHY this is happening. Obama has surrounded himself with far more academics and left leaning activists then veteran politicians, who could temper the violent swing to the left. As such, they BELIEVE the left's utopian ideologies that are born from the halls of academia. Social engineering, entitlements, and yes, a SOCIALIST philosophy is at the core of what they promote. Those ideas look great on paper, but look much different when put in actual real world situations. People were so angry with Bush that the pendulum HAD to swing the other way, so the left saw a perfect storm that got Obama elected. They want to vilify big business, punish the evil corporations, and anyone who has had success. Does anyone recall the "sharing the wealth" promise that Obama made? I will not argue that some businesses make obscene profits, but that will ALWAYS be the case- even in a pure communist society. The problem is, once you remove the incentive to succeed and reduce everyone to some "acceptable" level of wealth, how does this country as we know it survive and thrive? How does the current path reward or encourage the entrepreneurial spirit we were founded on?

Anyone who works in a busy urban system sees the results that decades of an entitlement mentality has gotten us. Ghettos are still locked in violence, unemployment, underducation, gangs, and drugs. Little has changed there in decades. Why? Because these entitlement ideas DO NOT WORK. It's a simple human response: Why should I work to better myself, with no guarantee of success, when I can exist my entire life without doing what is expected of most people- stay in school, work hard, take responsibility for my own actions and inactions, and contribute to society? Where is the motivation to change- especially when the down side of not changing means I still have food on the table, running water, electricity, and a roof over my head? That's not real poverty if you compare it to other places on this earth, and it's clearly not bad enough to change one's situation and/or behavior. You don't motivate someone to change by removing the motivation.

I believe in a safety net for people- that's simple human decency, but for far too many that "safety net" has turned into a "career" for generations of families.

This is NOT the mentality that made this country great, folks.

As with any social engineering type idea, the ones who shoulder the responsibility for supporting it are the middle class, and they are tired of being asked to dig deeper, make do with less, and that anger is now being expressed. This push for Obamacare is only a part of the problem, and it is radical enough to scare the hell out of people, but I think this is just the beginning.

I am truly scared about the direction this country is heading- not only in terms of the policies and how they will change our lives, but in the attitudes of those that are adversely affected by them. For decades, folks complain that Congress was not doing the work of the people, and the passage of this bill- against the wishes of the majority of Americans, should cement that feeling. People say that Obama is a transformative figure in our nation's history. I will not disagree with that, but the TYPE of transformation is what I do not want.

[Richard B the EMT]

For the Record:

1) I am not as well informed on the Healthcare Reform Laws just enacted either as I could and/or should be.

2) I do not condone armed revolt against our government.

3) I am a registered voter, and therefore, I have a choice via the ballot box, and am not afraid to use it.