Obama's Healthcare Reform

[Just Plain Ruff]

ok, I've been watching the debate and this passage with interest.

First, I have a pre-existing condition - Diabetes. I'm also overweight.

Face it folks, we have already been rationing healthcare but no-one seems to understand that. The rationing is the inability of those who have pre-existing conditions to be covered.

Also rationing in the form of Outpatient procedures or inpatient procedures that insurance denies. Remember Medicare is the number one denier of healthcare procedures and claims. (didn't knwo that did you? They denied 8.4% of all claims last year. Aetna was 2nd with 6.4%) I will provide figures as soon as I can find that website I read it on.

I will believe all this hype of it costing less and other crap when it comes true. Remember, the massachussets plan was touted to save money yet it's now horribly in debt and not slated to get better anytime soon.

I know that none of those congressmen/women will pay for this bill or it's associated costs. They don't have to because their healthcare is truly the best in the world. They get what they want but we peons don't.

What frightens me the most is this, and you can agree to disagree with me but this is where it all boils down to. My son and daughters childrens children will still be paying for this. They will be paying for all the illegal aliens in this country to get healthcare. They will be paying for yours and my healthcare needs.

Right now I owe nearly 25K to various doctors and clinics and hospitals. I do not have a full time job. I have no benefits for myself but I'm paying 600 bucks a month to cover my wife and two kids. Where am I getting that money, from my parents and my part time job. In my chosen field (consulting) I have not been able to find work for over 6 months.

For the one who says that he pays 52% of his income in taxes, well when you make 36K a year you are left with 18K after taxes. Put a 1000 mortgage, 600-700 for other bills an you are left with about 2000 dollars A YEAR or 200 per month to spend on other things. I don't want to live that way. To have 200 per month cushion is absurd to expect a family of 4 to exist. What about the emergency rom co-pays, or the unexpected bill that comes in and wipes out that 200 for that month.

There is no easy answer to this. I do not wish the congress's job on anyone.

But I do know this, we do need change, was Obamacare the answer. NOPE I don't think so.

Have you been following the big explosion thread I posted. There is some good information on how to survive disaster in there.

I fear for this country, I see a lot of Babylonian empire in our country. If you need the biblical references just go to the book of Daniel and read chapters 1 through 7.

I know many don't like bible references on this forum but you cannot discount the similarities in that book to our society.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Ruffems

[HERBIE1]

ok, I've been watching the debate and this passage with interest.

First, I have a pre-existing condition - Diabetes. I'm also overweight.

Face it folks, we have already been rationing healthcare but no-one seems to understand that. The rationing is the inability of those who have pre-existing conditions to be covered.

Also rationing in the form of Outpatient procedures or inpatient procedures that insurance denies. Remember Medicare is the number one denier of healthcare procedures and claims. (didn't knwo that did you? They denied 8.4% of all claims last year. Aetna was 2nd with 6.4%) I will provide figures as soon as I can find that website I read it on.

I will believe all this hype of it costing less and other crap when it comes true. Remember, the massachussets plan was touted to save money yet it's now horribly in debt and not slated to get better anytime soon.

I know that none of those congressmen/women will pay for this bill or it's associated costs. They don't have to because their healthcare is truly the best in the world. They get what they want but we peons don't.

What frightens me the most is this, and you can agree to disagree with me but this is where it all boils down to. My son and daughters childrens children will still be paying for this. They will be paying for all the illegal aliens in this country to get healthcare. They will be paying for yours and my healthcare needs.

Right now I owe nearly 25K to various doctors and clinics and hospitals. I do not have a full time job. I have no benefits for myself but I'm paying 600 bucks a month to cover my wife and two kids. Where am I getting that money, from my parents and my part time job. In my chosen field (consulting) I have not been able to find work for over 6 months.

For the one who says that he pays 52% of his income in taxes, well when you make 36K a year you are left with 18K after taxes. Put a 1000 mortgage, 600-700 for other bills an you are left with about 2000 dollars A YEAR or 200 per month to spend on other things. I don't want to live that way. To have 200 per month cushion is absurd to expect a family of 4 to exist. What about the emergency rom co-pays, or the unexpected bill that comes in and wipes out that 200 for that month.

There is no easy answer to this. I do not wish the congress's job on anyone.

But I do know this, we do need change, was Obamacare the answer. NOPE I don't think so.

Have you been following the big explosion thread I posted. There is some good information on how to survive disaster in there.

I fear for this country, I see a lot of Babylonian empire in our country. If you need the biblical references just go to the book of Daniel and read chapters 1 through 7.

I know many don't like bible references on this forum but you cannot discount the similarities in that book to our society.

Thoughtful post. Not many in your position could be as rational and logical about what's going on. The easy answer(especially for someone in the midst of medical care debt) would be to say "Hell yeah, we ALL need free health care", but as you noted, there are MANY reasons why this path is not a good one to be traveling on.

I am also fearful of how this will turn out. There are a lot of angry people, and something like this will only further polarize our country. It affects EVERYONE, not just a select group here or there, and is a fundamental shift in the role of our government in our lives. Yes, Medicare IS government run, but retired folks, on a limited income have limited options, and limited income- a government plan makes sense as a safety net. This HCR injects the government into our lives on a whole new level and many are scared to death about that- myself included.

Edited for clarity..

Edited March 22, 2010 by HERBIE1

[Just Plain Ruff]

Thoughtful post. Not many in your position could be as rational and logical about what's going on. The easy answer(especially for someone in the midst of medical care debt) would be to say "Hell yeah, we ALL need free health care", but as you noted, there are MANY reasons why this path is not a good one to be traveling on.

I am also fearful of how this will turn out. There are a lot of angry people, and something like this will only further polarize our country. It affects EVERYONE, not just a select group here or there, and is a fundamental shift in the role of our government in our lives. Yes, Medicare IS government run, but retired folks, on a limited income have limited options, and limited income. This injects the government into our lives on a whole new level and many are scared to death about that- myself included.

ABSOLUTELY

If you currently think Government in your life is intrusive, just wait.

[Lisa O]

This was not the way to go about all that is wrong with the country. Nobody can sit here and claim that we are perfect, that everything is exactly how it should be. But, the way this went down feels dirty and wrong. It's not going to give people the utopia they are hoping it will. This bill will not fix our problems, only create more.

[Richard B the EMT]

Just for the record I am not cert'd as I said but I do have training as an EMT-B and as such I am still covered by the Good Samaritan Law

With the understanding that we are talking different states' protocols, regulations, and laws (I'm in NY), it translates much as follows (wording is mine, not the official stuff):

If you're working as an EMSer, and receiving compensate for doing so (getting paid), as long as you work to the best of your abilities within your scope of training, you're covered by Article 30 of the New York State Public Health Law.

If you're working as an EMSer, and receiving no compensate for doing so (not getting paid, or volunteering), as long as you work to the best of your abilities within your scope of training, you're covered by "Good Sam".

It is my presumption that this runs from volunteer agency "in-house" certified First Responders, to State DoH (department of health) Certified First Responders, EMTs, and Paramedics

.....*gets out the popcorn and pulls out a chair for this one*.....

I brought my own chair, but do you have any low or no-fat "butter" for that popcorn?

[Just Plain Ruff]

With the understanding that we are talking different states' protocols, regulations, and laws (I'm in NY), it translates much as follows (wording is mine, not the official stuff):

It is my presumption that this runs from volunteer agency "in-house" certified First Responders, to State DoH (department of health) Certified First Responders, EMTs, and Paramedics

I brought my own chair, but do you have any low or no-fat "butter" for that popcorn?

NOW I"M PISSED

I just found that since I have a major pre-existing condition, I still won't be able to be covered and not be denied due to pre-existing conditions until 2014. That's 4 years away. So what they are saying is that I'm still going to be uninsured for 4 more years unless I get group coverage from a full-time employer. But since I have my own company I can get group coverage for my company at 1400 per MONTH.

So for the next 4 years, if I want to get coverage I need to close my small business and go with a full time employer to get coverage. How is that small business or middle class friendly.

One question to everyone on this forum who is posting here.

Have you read the bill? I haven't but I plan to. As soon as I finish watching the snow melt. On second thought - I might just read it while watching the snow melt.

[JPINFV]

This will make for an interesting SCOTUS case.

[tcripp]

I brought my own chair, but do you have any low or no-fat "butter" for that popcorn?

Sorry, dude. No butter on this popcorn. I have to keep up my health so that I can take care of those...who don't.

And if this question was directed to Don, I apologize for responding. I'm sitting right next to him and noticed he's so wrapped up in this conversation...he didn't even hear you.

Edited March 22, 2010 by tcripp

[HERBIE1]

NOW I"M PISSED

I just found that since I have a major pre-existing condition, I still won't be able to be covered and not be denied due to pre-existing conditions until 2014. That's 4 years away. So what they are saying is that I'm still going to be uninsured for 4 more years unless I get group coverage from a full-time employer. But since I have my own company I can get group coverage for my company at 1400 per MONTH.

So for the next 4 years, if I want to get coverage I need to close my small business and go with a full time employer to get coverage. How is that small business or middle class friendly.

One question to everyone on this forum who is posting here.

Have you read the bill? I haven't but I plan to. As soon as I finish watching the snow melt. On second thought - I might just read it while watching the snow melt.

I have read excerpts, condensed versions, and take home points, but the entire bill- of course not. We're talking about 2300 pages- I have a life. It's written in legalese and unless you are a lawyer, it would take forever to sort it all out. The other issue is that we don't even have the final version yet, so nobody yet knows what the final product will be. The left is still pushing to put the public option back in before it's voted on again- reconciliation.

As for waiting 4 years, some of the provisions go into effect now. While I may not agree with all of these, why not try them and see how they work out? Will they save money? Will they help? How much will they actually cost? Why blow up the entire system?

1. Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

2. Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions

3. No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage

4. Free preventative care for all

5. Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.

6. Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.

7. The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.

8. Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.

9. Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.

10. AND no more rescissions. Effective immediately, you can't lose your insurance because you get sick.

Democrats want universal health care, and this bill is the closest thing they can get passed so far. The next push will be for the government run public option.

[JPINFV]

Anyone who seriously considers that this bill will make preventative care "free" has never taken high school economics.