Yet another oops

[mobey]

GLENARDEN, Md. -- The Prince George's County Fire/Emergency Services Department is limiting the duties of two paramedics pending an investigation into how they walked away from an unconscious local man at about Noon on Friday after saying he was dead.

An hour and a half after the two medics left the man's Glenarden Parkway home, forensics investigators saw signs of life in the man and again called for EMS help.

Link

[JakeEMTP]

I really don't know what to think. Don't we have a member here that works for this umm, service? Maybe he can shed some light. I think these clowns were in the news for something similar a little while back, and the STATter911 link confirms this.

Please, please assess your patients. This would include placing them on the monitor. It is very difficult if not impossible to palpate a pulse with a systolic of less than 70. I don't know all the circumstances regarding this incident, but at first glance it appears as if "no carotid, he must be dead" was the extent of assessment.

[emtannie]

Once again, news like this paints EMS with a bad brush.

Unless there were significant extenuating circumstances (of which I cannot think of a single relevant one at this time), there is no excuse for this kind of a mistake.

Do they not have protocols to follow before saying "yup he's dead"? Do they not have to confirm asytole with a monitor for a certain period of time? Or, do they not have to see obvious signs of death, like rigor, lividity, of the patient's brains separated from the body?

Jake, I suspect you hit the nail on the head with the just checking carotid pulse.

Articles like the one mobey posted make me want to take these two medics out behind the barn...

[mobey]

This is why I like a standard approach to determining death in the field.

Mine goes like this:

Skin coulor and turgor

Resp effort

Carotid & radial pulse

Signs of trauma incompatible with life and or lividity/rigor

Pupil assessment

ECG in multiple leads

It is easy to add to this list...... But it should not be shorter. All these assessments can be done in 1min.

Obvioustly the guy was breathing too. That is 2 systems that were not assessed.

[Richard B the EMT]

Via the links, this is the second incident of "Pronouncing" a living person as deceased in a relatively short time.

One is an error, 2 is a pattern. What is going on, there?

"Momma 'B'", ever the teacher she retired from being, says it is a failure to be properly trained.

[Dustdevil]

Articles like the one mobey posted make me want to take these two medics out behind the barn...

Since they are referred to as EMTs, it's hard to determine what their level of training actually is. But in MD, it's a moot point. They all suck.

Just to reiterate the obvious, I notice it was -- as always -- a FIRE department.

[Kiwiology]

Aw jeez .... we need a bunch of things to declare somebody dead I can't think of them right now but I'd say it's multiple leads of asystole, no pulse/resp effort or rigor/lividity etc

Man thats bad

[CBEMT]

Since they are referred to as EMTs, it's hard to determine what their level of training actually is. But in MD, it's a moot point. They all suck.

Just to reiterate the obvious, I notice it was -- as always -- a FIRE department.

Double paramedic truck. Second time this year for PGFD; by the looks of it the first time may have been a volunteer Basic. These guys were career FF/PMs.

http://statter911.com/2010/03/26/maryland-paramedics-under-review-after-pronouncing-a-man-dead-who-wasnt-second-such-case-in-prince-georges-county-in-as-many-months/

Edited March 28, 2010 by CBEMT

[Dustdevil]

I listened to the radio traffic tape. Those guys sure are impressed with the sound of their own voices.

I'm surprised that the state police wanted the "body" extricated that soon. It's usually hours after an incident before a DOS is bagged, with lots of investigation, including an ME, being done before hand. Lucky (?) for the patient that the cops were in a hurry to get back to sitting on their arses.

It's so sad that a state that displayed so much early potential in EMS has become one of the last states you'd ever want to need an ambulance in, sharing that dubious distinction with New Jersey, Michigan, California, Arizona, Floridia, and of course DC.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Dustdevil