Nursing Tug Of War

[Jwade]

Seems like EMS is not the only people who can't agree on entry level standards......Thoughts?

Nursing Tug of War

[FireMedic65]

I am all for raising standards and education needed. How can we expect to improve the profession if we don't make steps like this. I saw YES, do it. Also, make it cost effective. If your employer requires, it.. they pay for it, or at least a large chunk of it.

[MedicRN]

More ADNs might go for their BSN is they were "paid" for it. Not only for the employer to pay for the education, but also in wages. Currently where I work, ADNs and BSNs make the exact same money! I have no desire for management and therefore have no incentive to go for my BSN (Bull S**it in Nursing).

Edited March 27, 2010 by MedicRN

[VentMedic]

Many hospitals do pay a little extra for the BSN as well as the MSN. (The same goes for the BSRT as well.)

Many hospitals prefer the BSN for those in specialty units and on specialty teams including transport. Yes, being on a specialty team may also get you a little extra in your pay check. I have only seen a few RNs with anything less than a BSN in our ICUs. We also have 5 colleges in the county that offer the BSN and only one community college. Thus, I would say in my area, 80% of the grads are not from the community college.

The BSN is also easily accessible at the community colleges which makes it an easy transfer. Community colleges are welcoming these arrangements to survive especially now in California. Florida learned this a long time ago and got the community colleges together with the universities.

Many hospitals offer tuition assistance for completing a BSN.

Many hospitals will reimburse a considerable portion of the RN's tuition from a BSN program including some of the more expensive ones in California which can cost around $50K.

The Federal government has a reimbursement plan for nurses.

Nurses now know where they stand amongst the other health care professionals that now require much more education with the RN and RT being at the bottom of the professional food chain with a mere Associates degree. And yes, RT is doing something about that.

At this time there is not a great nursing shortage. Many new grads are struggling to find jobs and those with the BSN may win out over the ADN. Administrators see those that have put forth a greater effort and who have made an investment in their future as employees who want a career and not just a job that pays well.

Thus, for a profession that still has hospitals and the government throwing money at their nursing students and RNs, one would be a fool not to take advantage of the many offers out there if nothing else then for personal gain for a professional goal.

RTs were getting A.S. degrees for over 20 years before it became the standard. They were also getting BS degrees over the past 20 years knowing that some day a couple of Bills for their practice would come along for a few nice opportunities with professional growth and monetary gain. Nursing has many opportunities to put their BSN to good use even if it might not be in the hospital one is at now. One can sit and whine about their status and make excuses or one can take advantage of what their profession has to offer.

A BS degree is not bullshit. Nor is it just for management. Those who believe education is bullshit will be and should be the ones downgraded to a lower status and left behind. They do little to promote their profession regardless of what it is. Imagine having this conversation with the many different professionals that go on to obtain higher education just to enter their profession such as Accountants and Graphic Artists. You need a Bachelors degree to be competitive in the world of drawing pretty pictures but you only have to be minimally educated to take care of patients and save lives.

Edited March 28, 2010 by VentMedic

[MedicRN]

You're right. SOME hospitals pay extra for a BS. Not were I live. Locally, there are 3 or 4 universities (within an hours' drive) and about twice that of community colleges which offer ADN. I will take an ADN over a BSN any day. I have precepted both. The ADN is much more prepared for BEDSIDE nursing vs the BSN who can research you right out the door.

I've found that ADNs have more MEANINGFUL clinical time at bedside vs the BSN thus more comfortable with the fundamentals. The incident which stands out most in my head is having to step by step tell a newly minted BSN grad how to put in a foley (I was a nurse tech at the time and could do it blindfolded)! I've never had to walk an ADN through a fundamental task.

Aside from the apparent advancement possibilities (which I have no interest in), there is nothing a bedside BSN does better than an ADN.

:::: off my soapbox ::::

[VentMedic]

I will take an ADN over a BSN any day. I have precepted both. The ADN is much more prepared for BEDSIDE nursing vs the BSN who can research you right out the door.

Your comments about the BSN grads knowing very little practical applications can also be applied to many ADN grads. Unfortunately not all programs and clinicals are created equal which depends greatly on the facilities they have access to as well as the educators or the nurses the students are assigned to. You probably would not give a BSN student much of a chance since your attitude is already negative and probably very little would change your mind when it comes to giving the students of a BSN program an opportunity to learn.

If you only have the ADN and have never been through a BSN program, how can you fairly judge a BSN grad? I would in no way want to be precepted by someone that has such a skewed impression about someone who has gotten a higher degree. This is why some hospitals only put those with BSNs (or BSRTs) in preceptor positions. It is unfortunate that these educated professionals must be subject to your attitude towards them just because they have chosen to get an education.

If you compare the programs for the ADN and the BSN, you will find they have the same sciences and require the same number of clinical hours. Of course the BSN has the option of requiring the higher level sciences and maths as well as introducing the student to the world of medical literature and research. Why do you find research to be a negative thing? I don't know if you have ever worked in EMS but unfortunately, research is an area that could use a boost but people must be willing to acquire enough knowledge through education about the research process to make a valid project.

It is too bad you work in a hospital that does not have opportunities for the RNs to obtain professional growth and to have mentorship by those who take a different outlook on their profession and education. You would be truly amazed what well educated nurses and other professionals can bring to an ICU or any unit in a hospital.