Another Hostile FD Takeover

[Dustdevil]

Hopefully we'll see some arrests and restraining orders over this one.

http://www.ems1.com/volunteer-rural-ems/articles/806593-Ambulances-removed-by-firefighters-in-Pa-dispute

Ambulances removed by firefighters in Pa. dispute

Members said the forcible removal of vehicles on private property amounted to theft

By Tom Quigley

The Express-Times

LEBANON TWP., Pa. — Township ambulance squad members angered by a Wednesday night township committee decision moving squad responsibilities to the fire department gathered Saturday in their West Hill Road headquarters seeking public support.

After the vote Wednesday, an estimated 10 firefighters showed up at squad headquarters, stood between two squad members and the station's two ambulances, and drove the fully equipped vehicles to an unknown location, squad members said.

One of the squad members said she felt intimidated by the men. The firefighters also took a backboard from the squad building, members said.

Members said the ambulances are partially owned by the rescue squad and the forcible removal of them on private property amounted to theft.

"The public safety of Lebanon Township is at the most risk of life and property loss that I have ever been aware of," said township Committeeman Brian Wunder, who resigned his position with the squad about two weeks before the vote.

Wunder said the township attorney still argued that he could not vote on the resolution. Wunder on Saturday said he was virtually kicked out of the meeting.

Squad members said the fire department has only a few trained emergency medical technicians compared to the rescue squad.

Township Mayor Jay Weeks voted for the resolution, along with township Committee members George Piazza and Patricia Shriver.

"The ambulances are in Lebanon Township's name," the mayor said. "I'm going to let the lawyers handle this. We've been fooling around with this for the past three or four years."

Shriver said a "go-round" with the rescue squad began a long time ago "when they did not get their books audited, and that's the law."

She said the volunteer squad wants to become a paid squad.

"We felt we never wanted to charge our residents even if it gets paid through insurance," Shriver said.

She said the township fire department has wanted to work with the township for a long time on this.

Attorney Ronald Peles represents the rescue squad and attended Saturday's meeting.

He said the township committee effectively shut out the public by making the change by resolution instead of an ordinance, which requires a public hearing.

He said he will ask a judge for a temporary restraining order preventing the township committee from continuing to implement the resolution.

Piazza said the township committee will pass an ordinance if they have to.

He said squad members and firefighters all know one another and there was no intimidation or threatening tactics used by the firefighters who removed the ambulances.

"They were just doing what they're supposed to be doing," Piazza said.

He said township officials "have always had a problem with the squad leadership, not the members."

He said the members of the rescue squad are a great group of people and he knows of some who are already willing to join the fire department and continue doing what they've always done.

He said the leadership of the 40-member rescue squad "do whatever they please and we have nothing to say."

"It's not working properly over there," he said of the squad. "Over a period of time we lost control of our squad. It's not a secret. We've had arguments at the meetings."

He said the squad's leaders took out a loan a few months ago without informing the township committee.

"We were left in the dark," he said.

Piazza said squad leaders want financial support from the township for ambulances without being accountable to the township.

"They want to be their own little gang over there and it's just not working," Piazza said.

Peles said the Hunterdon County Prosecutor's Office is going to have to take look at the situation.

The rescue squad began operations in 1968.

Township Committeeman Frank Morrison voted against the resolution.

Township Fire Chief Warren Gabriel could not be reached for comment Saturday.

[Chief1C]

Good reason you shouldn't have municipalities involved with running emergency services. In some way, theft will be an issue. The article isn't very clear on what the problem is exactly. Seems to me, the "rescue squad" wanted to go paid, and the township wants to prevent that so people won't be billed. Let the firemen get a different hobby, and let the ambulance evolve.

[WolfmanHarris]

Good reason you shouldn't have municipalities involved with running emergency services. In some way, theft will be an issue.

I don't follow your reasoning here.

[Dustdevil]

I don't follow your reasoning here.

If you lived in the NE United States, you would.

[Chief1C]

I don't follow your reasoning here.

Hear of it happening all too often. The town doesn't like what you're doing, they lock you out, or take your equipment away. "Why don't you do it our way". Often municipalities, run by common folks, with no education in politics, their main duty is road master, and taxing. They don't know how to run emergency services. They only have a slight idea, which is what I would equate to what the ambulance may have been run like, say, when it was founded in 1951.

So, we want to operate now, in 2010, and be paid in two years; and they want us to operate in 1951, on a 1951 budget. But they have no say in it, b/c their hand ain't in this pot. Sure, they could tell us we aren't allowed to respond in their town, but that's just going to get them sued. In a lot of places, the town, county, township, etc., own either the building or the title of the vehicle is in their name, b/c they may pay the insurance. Even though fund raising or billing, paid for the equipment. At least if you're independent, all they can do is say, we'll get someone else to provide the coverage. Chances are, even if those units are in the township's name, the equipment on it wasn't paid for by them. That's your theft right there.

[FireMedic65]

It seems like the article was one sided, for the FD. What they did was wrong. Regardless of the reasons! A longer and proper notice should have been given in my opinion.

Combo stations more than often never work and fail. Even if they are friends outside of chasing tones around town. To me it seems a lot like they [the township and FD] is hiding behind lawyers for their acts.

It is unclear, though, why this came to be. The article didn't mention reasons the escalated to it. They said it was 2-3 years? And then all of a sudden they kick them out? We aren't hearing the full story here.

The FD shouldn't have kicked them out, and the ambo shouldn't have been trying to act independent from the FD when they were not.

sorry... I am tired with a large lack of sleep.. can't focus much on my rant

[Richard B the EMT]

Dusty, could you elaborate on your comment regarding Municipalities running an EMS, an FD, or a combined FD/EMS? My own FDNY and FDNY EMS Command is a municipal department, as in our commissioner has to talk to the City Council, and of course, the Mayor, for funding, or explaining things, good and bad, that happen. Even being in such agency, I don't follow your reasoning, or at least not yet.

Thanks in advance.

[Dustdevil]

Dusty, could you elaborate on your comment regarding Municipalities running an EMS, an FD, or a combined FD/EMS?

All I did was quote the article. I believe you are thinking of 46c's comment.

[island emt]

This sounds like an issue that has been going on a lot lately in PA. These "private rescue squads want towns to give them taxpayers monies , BUT don't want to have audits done or have accountability to anyone.

How many times in recent years have there been cases of theft , fraud and embezzlement by the officers of these squads in the news?

I can think of several right off the top of my head.

Too much of the good ole boy network not willing to answer to anyone.

[Richard B the EMT]

All I did was quote the article. I believe you are thinking of 4c6's comment.

In which case, 4C6, could you elaborate on your comment regarding Municipalities running an EMS, an FD, or a combined FD/EMS?

Edited April 15, 2010 by Richard B the EMT