kitkat Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Shortly after the 911 situation, when we were called to an airport transport, we were required to show picture id from our place of employment to even be allowed on the tar-mack, to be able to off-load the pt. I believe we are required to have our licence us at all times of pt contact.
future medic 48_234 Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Dyna Med used to have some California style 7-point star badges that were nice, but their website is dead now. I think they sold out or something. WE have a building by us who i Dyna-Med. All they sell is medical supplies and occassionally you'll see new and used squads for sale.
NREMT-Basic Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 In fact, in my home state of IL, an EMS employee, private or public, has the AUTHORITY under the IL Compiled Statutes to order bystanders, media and lookie lous of the scene and to have them arrested if they do not comply. I have said it once and I will say it again...Dust- You do know alot...You dont know it all. Dust off your imagination and realize that there is a whole big world out here that you have never even scene let alone know the rules of. Tonight when you go to bed, just quietly say to yourself..."Sometimes I am wrong." Then go vomit if you have to.
hfdff422 Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 I am part of a fire based EMS system and have a badge issued to me- it looks very nice on my class B's, but the dressy events are the only times the badge is even with me. The rest of the time it is of no use- for two reasons: #1- I am in control of the situation, and act accordingly regardless of my badge or anything else. Authority is what you are given by those who are not willing to be responsible for the situation. #2- It would easily undermine my ability to be in control of the situation. Try this exercise: Walk up to someone with a confident stride and a purposeful expression on your face and say in a definitive and confident tone "sir, please step back- this area is not safe". Now try walking up in a similar manner, pulling out your wallet, open it to the badge section, and then say "you need to move, this area is not safe". Sure both will work, but only one will get people to make fun of you and not really care what you say. Shirts with FD or EMS are enough to properly identify you to the general public.
NREMT-Basic Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 I think this topic has been beaten to death. To each his own say I, and for the love of God would someone please lock down this topic. PS- I have never displayed my badge when I was wearing anything else that would identify me...now walk up with no badge and no EMS or Fire shirt and ask people to move..a good number of them will tell you to get bent.
Richard B the EMT Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 OK, now I did check back to the beginning of this string. The EMT who got arrested in NYC was (is?) a member of the Central Park VAC. He was arrested for possession of an EMT badge, in the design of an NYPD Detective badge (think NYPD Blue, or any of the Law And Order series') with a NY State emblem, which was being carried in his briefcase, and not being used for any active identification of the individual. Per Ed Wronsky, the head of the DoH Bureau of EMS, and who is the official signature on all NYS EMT cards, we now know that the state is being wishy-washy. They say you can wear or carry a badge, but the state doesn't issue one, or have any mechanism of approval for any specific design badge. The cops involved in the arrest of the CPVAC member quote some law stating that a badge with either a municipality, county or state emblem that is not issued by that municipality, county or the state of NY, is illegal. There is question, instead of such emblem, that a Star of Life be used instead, but no conclusion was reached. I am told that in the months from when the CPVAC person was arrested, as of last week, some 80 EMS or EMT personnel around the entire state have been arrested for having a badge. That source also states that the CPVAC member was exonerated of charges. At this juncture, I mention the rules that the FDNY EMS has us follow: When working, a member is REQUIRED to have in possession, their NY State drivers license, their FDNY identification card, and their NY State DoH issued EMT or Paramedic card(s). Failure to have those cards, which field supervisors will check for, on an irregular basis, can result in charges being brought against that member. While the FDNY has issued us a Maltese Cross based design badge for identification, we are NOT to display that badge from either the work uniform, or the "Class 'A' Dress" uniform. I also mention that I carry MY ID card and badge in a wallet designed to carry, and display, both from a neck cord. I'm on light duty from a Line Of Duty Injury (LODI), and working in headquarters, am required to display the ID card. I just wear it with the card, not the badge, to the front.
NREMT-Basic Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Hey Richard- Thanks for being so clear and concise in your analysis of the whole to badge or not to badge thing. Your posts have been some of the only that actually have a point to them other than people arguing whether a badge in a wallet is a sign of ego. As a freelance defense law paralegal and EMT, I have taken a keen interest in this topic and have done some research. As an example, I will offer what the attorney general of the great State of Illinois has to say. I paraphrase: If your agency, public or private, does not issue and/or require a badge shield or other metallic, etc identification, you may still carry one for identification purposes, provided that along with it you carry and can provide when requested to do so a copy of you DOH EMS license. If your agency, public or private, does not issue badges and you are carrying one of your own accord, it may not display the Seal of the State of IL. It may have the Maltese Cross for FFs or the SOL for EMTs. If your agency requires and or furnishes it, it may include the Great Seal of the State. I hate to assume such things but I suspect that other states have similar laws regarding the use of badges and the use of the seal of the state. Thanks again Richard.
Richard B the EMT Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 NREMT-B, I can't explain why, but your last posting just got me really going down memory lane, as I suddenly remembered a part of a story I might have heard on the "Captain Kangaroo" show, back in either the late 1950s or early 1960s (I was born in 1954). At some formal garden party within the story, which might have taken place prior to the last turn of the century, the Governor attended, wearing his red sash to tell those, who otherwise might not know, that he WAS the Governor. I also recall a story from within my own VAC. Seems a 2 person crew responded to a pedestrian struck by a car. The crew-chief was a 4 foot eleven inch lady, rated at EMT, the Motor Vehicle Operator (note how I don't call him the ambulance driver) was a six foot six non medically trained man. Both were wearing the work uniform of the day for the VAC, with agency patch on the left shoulder, and she had the NY State EMT patch on her right shoulder. At the time, the VAC didn't have an agency badge, and did have a policy threatening anyone using a badge on duty with suspension, as the chief at the time feared personnel using the badge to gain an illegal free ride on the bus or subway train. The Lady EMT jumped from the ambulance to check out the patient, and the MVO went to the back of the ambulance to retrieve the necessary equipment. When he approached the patient, he witnessed a LEO physically pick up the lady EMT, and put her onto the sidewalk, despite her protestations, to "stay out of the way of the ambulance crew, little girl". The MVO tapped the LEO on the shoulder, and the LEO turned around to find the towering MVO asking him to return his EMT to him! A few months later, the VAC started issuing a Kelly Green jumpsuit, and a badge for ID when out of uniform, in addition to the ID card we already were using. Even if the jumpsuit was covered by a winter jacket, the legs had the color as a partial visual ID.
NREMT-Basic Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Thats a great story and I cant wait to share that with my collegues. I would love to take the time to hear about your experiences as I know I could learn from them. If you have the time, please PM me or email me at emt.kincannon@yahoo.com. Be safe and keep your head down. Steven A. KinCannon, NREMT-B/D (Illinois)
CAPEMT Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 I will put this to everyone...I work for an EMS service which is county owned and run, but is NOT attached to the fire dept. We are a stand-alone agency, as are most of the 911 providers in Southeast TN. We are issued badges by the county. I do work part time at a private EMS company as well, and we are not issued badges there. I think that the argument that we are not "public safety" may apply to some of us who work for private services, but when I am on that COUNTY truck in that COUNTY uniform with that COUNTY EMS BADGE on, I am telling the people in the COUNTY that I am there to SERVE them when they have an EMERGENCY, exactly what they pay their TAXES for. When I am on that PRIVATE ambulance in that PRIVATE uniform with that PRIVATE EMS PATCH on, I am telling the people in the AREA that I am there to SERVE them when they have a NEED for an AMBULANCE, exactly what they are BILLED for. So do badges have a place in EMS? I think that they do. Do we need a distinctive, unique badge? I think so. Maybe a Star of Life shaped badge? I don't know. But not all of us who have EMT badges are wankers or wannabe cops. That's my stand. Just a thought....
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