Mateo_1387 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 I think you've misunderstood the entire content and intent of my post. At no time did I advocate using corporal punishment to discipline children. As a matter of fact, my posting was purely observational, and I intentionally left my personal feelings out it. What have I misunderstood? Your comment “I've been on both ends of the corporal punishment scene. I've had one parent who was abusive with it, and another that only used it when nothing else seemed to be effective.I can say this about the the total way I was raised. I don't use drugs, I've never been to prison, I'm not an alcoholic and I've actually attempted to make something of my life.” I interpret this as your evidence for corporal punishment. You grew up with it and it was incorporated into your totally raising. Since you seem to have grown up without those unhealthy things in your life (drugs and prison), you lead me to believe that corporal punishment, weather abusive or last ditch effort, had a positive effect on your future. You never mentioned that it did not help and in fact imply it was effective. Did you leave your feeling out when you wrote “My views on coroporal punishment aside, I don't feel that it's a teacher/principal or other school official's job to discipline my child. As a parent, that is my RESPONSIBILITY.”? You even capitalized responsibility… Were you not trying to invoke some feeling when you quoted “There's a quote attributed to George Carlin that goes something like this: "It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child. It DOES however, take parents to get off their lazy ass and actually give a damn!”? By doing so, I merely pointed out that there are other methods available to discipline children. Furthermore, by not getting emotionally caught up in the debate, I beliveve I've given creedence to my observations. I have seen no other mentions of alternative discipline except for raising your voice to show displeasure. Otherwise, I found nothing else in your post stating what tools we may be able to use as alternatives. Also, not being emotional does not make your observation any more valid. In fact, what was your observation? I really could not find one. I'm glad you think that we're making 'progress', but since I remained purely obeservational in the entire posting; how can you presume to know which side of the debate I'm advocating? It seems to me that you've already made up your mind that I advocate one method over the other, when in fact, I've remained entirely neutral. I never accused you of taking a side (previously). We have had this discussion in the past, and if memory serves me correct, you do advocate spanking, just not entirely.
Lone Star Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Matt, Since you seem intent on picking apart my original post and analyzing it, let me do it for you, so that my meanings are clarified: I've seen kids that require no more 'discipline' than simply raising your voice to show displeasure, and I've seen kids that you can beat the hell out of, and it will change nothing. Simply stated, I’ve seen children that respond simply to a tone of voice used by the parents to convey their displeasure with the child’s actions. I’ve also seen children who have had corporal punishment used for every ‘offense’, and not get the intended results. So which method is 'better'? I wasn’t offering any advice either way. Simply stated, it opens a line of dialogue. I've been on both ends of the corporal punishment scene. I've had one parent who was abusive with it, and another that only used it when nothing else seemed to be effective. This was included to show that I’ve been exposed to both concepts of child discipline. I’ve been exposed to the excessive use of it (to the point of being abusive), and where it was only used as a ‘last resort’, because other methods of discipline were used. I can say this about the total way I was raised. I don't use drugs, I've never been to prison, I'm not an alcoholic and I've actually attempted to make something of my life. Is this the direct result of corporal punishment, or because I had at least one parent that stuck their nose in my 'business' and made sure I was doing things the way they should be done? It's hard to say for sure. It might have been one or the other....or a combination of both. Here, I have done nothing more than state a fact. Since I’ve been exposed to both corporal punishment and other forms of discipline; I cannot attribute this fact to either form of discipline. To say that one form or the other kept me from becoming a drug addict/alcoholic/convict would be advocating one form or the other. As far as disciplining MY children, I'm one of those people that try to make the punishment fit the 'crime'. Corporal punishment isn't the only 'tool' we have as parents. I believe that there are other forms of discipline, and I don’t need to ‘throw the book at them’ every time they break the rules. I also believe that corporal punishment isn’t the only effective form of discipline available to parents. My views on corporal punishment aside, I don't feel that it's a teacher/principal or other school official's job to discipline my child. As a parent, that is my RESPONSIBILITY. The responsibility that I’m alluding to here is the responsibility to take care of the discipline of my child. It’s not the job of the school district or their employees to decide which form of discipline is appropriate for my child. The statement “My views on corporal punishment aside” simply means that whether or not I advocate its use is irrelevant in this statement. My point of the fact that it’s the responsibility of the parent, not the teachers/school staff to discipline the child was the main point of that paragraph. There's a quote attributed to George Carlin that goes something like this: "It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child. It DOES however, take parents to get off their lazy ass and actually give a damn!" I’ve seen the effect of having a parent that knew where I was, what I was doing and who I was running with. I’ve seen far too many ‘parents’ that would rather just park their kid in front of the television/VCR/computer and just ‘let them be’. To explore this topic further requires a new thread. As a mechanic, I fill my toolbox with all the proper tools to effectively repair and maintain my vehicle. As a parent, I must do the same thing to be able to effectively raise and guide my child. As the mechanic might pass the toolbox onto his/her children, we must do the same with our 'parenting toolbox'. For those that advocate corporal punishment for all offenses, this is all that the child will have in their 'parenting toolbox', and the cycle continues. Just as a mechanic would have an assortment of different sized and types of wrenches and other tools in their tool box, as a parent, we cannot rely only on corporal punishment to keep our kids ‘in line’. When the mechanic retires from working on cars, the tool box will be passed onto the children, so that they may take those tools and be able to repair their vehicles properly. By the same token, when we limit the ‘parenting tools’, we’re actually limiting our children’s ability to be effective parents. If all we have in the ‘parenting toolbox’ is corporal punishment, then we have in fact been limited ourselves; by our parents. By not expanding the tools a parent uses, we perpetuate the cycle of ill prepared parents who only have limited means to discipline their children. I was strong enough to 'break the cycle' when it came to dealing with the kids in my life, (a former step daughter, and a son and daughter of my own). Sadly, there are parents out there that are only perpetuating this cycle. While I was exposed to corporal punishment, I know that it’s not the ONLY way to discipline a child. Even though I was exposed to an abusive parent, I know that there are other ways to raise a child without having to abuse them, and thereby breaking the cycle of ill prepared parents referenced above. I didn't join this conversation to advocate corporal punishment, or to condemn those people that advocate it's use. My contribution was simply my observations and a statement of my views based on those observations. I'm not going to get into the whole 'judgement' scene, it's not my place to judge. 1
Mateo_1387 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Matt, Since you seem intent on picking apart my original post and analyzing it, let me do it for you, so that my meanings are clarified: I didn't join this conversation to advocate corporal punishment, or to condemn those people that advocate it's use. My contribution was simply my observations and a statement of my views based on those observations. I'm not going to get into the whole 'judgement' scene, it's not my place to judge. I am not intent on picking apart your post. I simply replied to certain sections of your post, inserted my thoughts and views, and asked you a few question (which are really for anyone to answer). I do not recall antagonizing you until part of the second post, where you started making assumptions about my first post. You say you have observations, which the only one I have yet to see is that you have seen some kids who respond to raising of the voice and others that do not respond to spanking. What other observations are there?
Eydawn Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 Spenac: I'm sorry, friend... I think you're a very intelligent poster and usually have a lot to offer, but you totally copped out on this thread. If you have experts to support your position and opinion, please, put it out there so the rest of us can work through it too. Don't just say you have them and then claim that you're taking some sort of moral high ground by not providing the evidence that you claim to have... all that does is make you look SCARED to back up your claims. No, I mean really. I've never seen you do that before. What gives?? Wendy CO EMT-B 1
DwayneEMTP Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 I'm glad you think that we're making 'progress', but since I remained purely obeservational in the entire posting; how can you presume to know which side of the debate I'm advocating? I usually hate neutral, but I thought your post friggin rocked LS! +5 Dwayne
Dustdevil Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 ...you totally copped out on this thread. If you have experts to support your position and opinion, please, put it out there so the rest of us can work through it too. The "experts" gave us our currently failing educational system. Experts are greatly overrated.
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