NYC Police officers and Fire personel

[lmustbe]

get 99,000 annual salary now and Nyc Ems was not even considered...

I always wondered why you see cops and everyone striking and Ems never seem to go that far..I think that is why we get paid so little.. If we were to strike we might get a raise to... $12 an hour is not cutting it...

[Kiwiology]

You guys need stronger industrial representation; Police have the PBA and Fire has the IAF/IAFC while by comparison EMS has very little.

[scott33]

get 99,000 annual salary now and Nyc Ems was not even considered..

Where is your source?

As per the NYPD website, it will take over 6 years to make that salary

http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_BenefitsOverview.aspx

To put it in context, my starting salary on the first day working as an RN, in the same part of the world, was in excess of what an NYPD officer makes after 5 years of service.

BTW, if you think NYPD make big bucks, try looking east of NYC.

[HERBIE1]

Salary is only a part of the equation. Think cost of living. The cost of living in a city like NY, LA, or Chicago is far different than in a smaller, more rural town. If you made 99K and lived in a small town in the middle of Kansas, you would be living large. In a big city, think ridiculous taxes, high cost of food and goods, gas prices, private schools(if the schools in your neighborhood are lousy), home prices, property taxes, etc, and that 99K doesn't go nearly as far as you might think. Yes, that IS a lot of money, but you need to put things in context.

Salaries in larger towns NEED to be higher- especially for city workers mandated to live in the area- or people would never be able to afford to live and work there.

Think about it- would you want to be a NYC or LA cop- with all the dangers they face- and try to live on 30K/yr?

Yes, EMS salaries need to improve everywhere, but we also cannot directly compare our jobs to being a cop or firefighter in terms of job description. A firefighter or cop's basic job description is essentially the same wherever you go. There is no stereotypical EMS provider. Think of all the types of providers and the differences between their job responsibilities- from advanced to basic, private, special events, hospital based, fire based, county, etc. It's impossible to come up with a standard pay scale that would apply to the entire spectrum of what we do.

That said, yes, we do need to be more organized politically, but for the above reasons and more, even with a major union affiliation or organization, it would be difficult to generate a cohesive national agenda that takes into account the various levels of training and/or job responsibilities.

[Richard B the EMT]

Uniformed members of the FDNY, FDNY EMS, NYPD, the Sanitation Department, as well as Department of Education Teachers, the Transit Authority (bus and subway trains) and other municipal jobs in New York City, operate under what locally is known as the Taylor Law. Basically, if you, as a part of your union, go out on a strike, you get fined 2 days pay for each day out on the strike.

If you are going to strike, you, and the union, better have a big "War Chest" to cover the lost wages.

[46Young]

Salary is only a part of the equation. Think cost of living. The cost of living in a city like NY, LA, or Chicago is far different than in a smaller, more rural town. If you made 99K and lived in a small town in the middle of Kansas, you would be living large. In a big city, think ridiculous taxes, high cost of food and goods, gas prices, private schools(if the schools in your neighborhood are lousy), home prices, property taxes, etc, and that 99K doesn't go nearly as far as you might think. Yes, that IS a lot of money, but you need to put things in context.

Salaries in larger towns NEED to be higher- especially for city workers mandated to live in the area- or people would never be able to afford to live and work there.

Think about it- would you want to be a NYC or LA cop- with all the dangers they face- and try to live on 30K/yr?

Yes, EMS salaries need to improve everywhere, but we also cannot directly compare our jobs to being a cop or firefighter in terms of job description. A firefighter or cop's basic job description is essentially the same wherever you go. There is no stereotypical EMS provider. Think of all the types of providers and the differences between their job responsibilities- from advanced to basic, private, special events, hospital based, fire based, county, etc. It's impossible to come up with a standard pay scale that would apply to the entire spectrum of what we do.

That said, yes, we do need to be more organized politically, but for the above reasons and more, even with a major union affiliation or organization, it would be difficult to generate a cohesive national agenda that takes into account the various levels of training and/or job responsibilities.

I hear you, but the OP was comparing apples to apples with FDNY EMS vs the NYPD and the FDNY. The cops weren't getting paid jack until this last contract. Rookies were getting around a 25k/yr rate out of the academy and not much over 30k as the first raise. At least their salary is somewhat liveable if your spouse works, or if you're single. The NYPD couldn't hire anybody with those wages, so they had to sweeten the pot. The problem with EMS is that there are a ridiculous amount of EMT's and medics coming out of school on a regular basis. The hospitals pay the best, with the best working conditions, so many will apply to FDNY EMS for the benefits and pension, as a better alternative to the privates, to gain experience to qualify for a hospital spot, or to backdoor into FDNY as a FF. The supply and lack of strength in their union is keeping wages down. FDNY EMS only gained uniform status recently as well.

My understanding of the pay structure is that rookies and employees with < 5 years OTJ are paid at a much lower rate so that the tenured employees can enjoy higher wages. Attrition typically happens in the first five years. Cops were/are leaving the NYPD for Nassau, Suffolk, or better jobs with state or county police in other parts of the country. FDNY keeps theirs because it's simply the most desireable place to work. We've lost FF's here to FDNY that took a 30-50% pay cut to get on.

Many here despise unions, but offer no effective and realistic plan for EMS organization otherwise. Look what the UFA has done for the FDNY throughout the years:

http://www.ufanyc.or..._us/history.php

Compare that to some podunk FD in the Deep South ("the war's not over, it's only halftime, boy!"....... whatever) in a right to work state. Compare those results to your EMS agency. You'll need the protection if a FD attempts a merger. You even have fire attempting to gain market share in Lee County FL! No region or agency is immune.

You guys need stronger industrial representation; Police have the PBA and Fire has the IAF/IAFC while by comparison EMS has very little.

But most here think that all unions are evil,and that their agency will always do right by them based on past history. I'll bet that your union would see to it that fire would never have a chance at gaining EMS market share in your country. I'm liking your meal break provision here as well. Most over here don't have that, and just have to deal with whatever the agency says, for lack of effective opposition.

Uniformed members of the FDNY, FDNY EMS, NYPD, the Sanitation Department, as well as Department of Education Teachers, the Transit Authority (bus and subway trains) and other municipal jobs in New York City, operate under what locally is known as the Taylor Law. Basically, if you, as a part of your union, go out on a strike, you get fined 2 days pay for each day out on the strike.

If you are going to strike, you, and the union, better have a big "War Chest" to cover the lost wages.

It's a shame. If FDNY EMS was more on point with salary, conditions and all, like fire and the hospitals, I would have accepted the medic position back in '06 and been happy. My two cousins left FDNY EMS for NSLIJ so they could be paid better and be able to raise families with less issues. One of their husbands is a FDNY EMS Capt. He's had lucrative admin offers in other states, but his wife doesn't want to relocate. I don't get why you guys could never get the 20 and out like other depts.

Edited April 21, 2010 by 46Young

[HERBIE1]

46Young-

I hear you about the union issues and I also had no idea that NYC's PD starting pay was so low. I would hope that they have regular step raises as they gain seniority because I don't know how someone can survive in a city like NYC on that starting pay.

Again, unions and EMS are going to be a tough sell. In my experience, many times the unions that do cover EMS groups are much smaller than the IAFF or AFL-CIO and do not have the same strength or numbers to get decent contracts. Like the SEIU(think hotel workers, hospitality workers, etc), often times the unions get far more out of their members than the other way around. Although those members do get a guaranteed pay rate, after they take out union dues, their take home pay is generally a pittance. The problem is, we are talking about so many different levels of licensure as well as types of service being provided, so a blanket EMS union would be a tough sell.

Clearly we need to raise our standards- in school and in training, so we can demand better wages from employers. That will be a tough sell for someone who works in a small town or rural area. After a certain point, if we get enough training, we will approach the level of an RN or other allied health provider, and many will feel they might as well simply change professions to get better pay. Yes, EMS and in hospital work are different animals, but if I will be forced to get a 4 year degree or something similar for EMS, why not simply become a nurse or something else in order to get the better pay, better job security, and working conditions. The reasons most of us are drawn to EMS- the type of work environment, the variety of work, the excitement, the nontraditional hours, the autonomy- may not be enough to entice people to stay if you cannot make a decent living.

[ambodriver]

NYC EMS gets 12$ an hour?!?!?!?!

That is shocking....and an unlivable wage.

[46Young]

12 bucks an hour is a disgustingly low salary for the area. They can't strike, but I think that they may have planned to do work slowdowns in the past. I forget if it was New Year's Eve 2005 or 2006, but the city had the hospitals put a bunch of extra units on for the overnight not only for call volume, but because it was believed that FDNY EMS was going to do a slowdown. Take their time onscene, spend well over an hour at the hospital, drive super slow to the hospital with a non acute pt, etc. It turns out that they thought better of it, so it never happened.

It's also difficult for the Local 2507 to gain leverage and influence with all the voluntary hospitals around, doing what they do. I have to wonder if the city could threaten to take away more FDNY ambulance slots and give them to hospitals as a negotiating tool. It's not like the city is going to hire hospital based police or Wackenhut firefighters to replace the cops and firefighters on the job right now. Even if that was considered, I would think the unions would squash that. In fact, I never understood how hospitals can operate in the NYC 911 system when it is the domain of the unionized FDNY EMS. The ironic thing is that these hospitals would offer superior compensation and benefits packages, as well as more desireable working conditions and schedules. The hospitals steal away experienced FDNY EMS techs all the time. I've seen conditions bosses working per diem for these hospitals as well. The whole thing is comical. They were trying to make it like these FDNY EMS employees were scabs for working per diem at these hospitals, but then the responded that the FDNY EMS salary is too low to be a liveable wage, and that they needed these jobs to keep their families fed and clothed. That was the end of that.

[VeruseseWothe]

Yes, you still have to go through all of this even if you are already a full time NY peace officer.

By the way we do have many NYDOCS, NYC Corrections, NYS Court officers and even NY Parole officers doing NYC Auxiliary.