Words are not sufficient to describe this FAIL!

[maverick56]

So far, I haven't seen anything about hating volunteers, just sub-standard providers. If that so happens to often be true of volunteer services, well, certain stereotypes can evolve. Personally, I have nothing again volunteer services - most around my area are. Some have members have fitting the stereotype to a "t", others are well-trained, high-speed organizations that provide quality care to their communities. Volunteer or not, I think the whole idea of "ambulance drivers" is a bad one. I understand that they may be in a bind, but the logic that offering sub-standard care is better than no care is flawed. Rather than recruiting for drivers, why not recruit for an EMT class? Hell, even an MFR class would be better than random people driving. Running skeleton crews is just asking for trouble. And yes, that is what this whole thing implies. A service isn't going to put out a desperate blurb in the local paper begging for drivers just so they can run 3-man crews. No, it's going to run when they don't have enough trained providers to cover shifts and are trying to spread things thin versus addressing the real problem. They are putting themselves and their patients at risk, not to mention the untrained and unprepared do-gooders and adrenaline seekers they'll attract. I mean come on, they're not even talking about requiring CEVO or other such ambulance/emergency-specific driving safety protocol. It's stupid!

[uglyEMT]

So far, I haven't seen anything about hating volunteers, just sub-standard providers. If that so happens to often be true of volunteer services, well, certain stereotypes can evolve. Personally, I have nothing again volunteer services - most around my area are. Some have members have fitting the stereotype to a "t", others are well-trained, high-speed organizations that provide quality care to their communities. Volunteer or not, I think the whole idea of "ambulance drivers" is a bad one. I understand that they may be in a bind, but the logic that offering sub-standard care is better than no care is flawed. Rather than recruiting for drivers, why not recruit for an EMT class? Hell, even an MFR class would be better than random people driving. Running skeleton crews is just asking for trouble. And yes, that is what this whole thing implies. A service isn't going to put out a desperate blurb in the local paper begging for drivers just so they can run 3-man crews. No, it's going to run when they don't have enough trained providers to cover shifts and are trying to spread things thin versus addressing the real problem. They are putting themselves and their patients at risk, not to mention the untrained and unprepared do-gooders and adrenaline seekers they'll attract. I mean come on, they're not even talking about requiring CEVO or other such ambulance/emergency-specific driving safety protocol. It's stupid!

This I can agree with 100%. Thank you maverick You are correct about some folks fitting stereotypes to a "T" and I have seen that on the paid side as well.

I agree with the prospect of running too thin or skeleton crews. Thats just bad patient care and dangerous. I would hope this town will at least after hiring would require CEVO. I know in my squad our insurance company wont allow anyone without a CEVO to be behind the wheel (I deal with the insurance so I would know LOL and also noone under 21)

My squad is small right now but we all pull our weight and cover. We always roll 3 to a rig and some of us are "just drivers" but all are EMT-B certified. Just do to age or other things, they dont lift or carry patients just drive. It works for us though, and as you said, what might work for our little community might not (probably wont) work for some place else.

I just dont like to see the broad brush stroke of fail when it comes to volunteers just because they are. Yes the ones that deserve it by all means go right ahead but please dont put down all volunteers.

As far as firemedics go... I know a few and the services they work for actually care alot about the EMS side. These guys and gals never went to fire academy just emt school and do nothing but ems. Their town saved money by basing the rigs with the fire dept but each is a seperate entity inside of itself. The ems has its own chain of command and training, they just have the benifit of the fire depts resources. Again as with vollies I just dont like the broad brush strokes.

[FireMedic65]

Why would this be such a bad idea? As far as I know, you need TWO qualified people on the ambulance to fulfill a crew. That being said, you need an EMT to make the crew full with a medic.

So, if the same laws apply there as they do here, this is a fantastic idea. It frees up a qualified person to do what they were trained to do, instead of being a "driver". You will have your full crew, in the back, with the patient where they belong.

Having someone come in on their own time, to help with patient care and drive the ambulance while the providers can, well PROVIDE for the patient would be fantastic.

[chaser]

....Once on the scene, the emergency management technicians may ask you to help in ways for which you are qualified...

What is an "emergency management technician"?? What will the title be for the non medical undertrained driver be? Ambulance handler specialist??

Aside from that, I see great potential for getting this person into a situation they can not handle due to lack of knowledge and training, and end badly for all involved.

[Chief1C]

There's no glory in a title anymore. The people who stock shelves at Wal-Mart, are Technicians.

[emtannie]

....What will the title be for the non medical undertrained driver be? ....

PETE = Personnel and Equipment Transportation Engineer

(sounds so much better than "ambulance driver")

There are volly crews who do very good work, maintain their skills, and whose abilities are second to none.

There are also volly crews where members are lucky to have had a CPR recert in the past 10 years.

One serious problem I see with volly crews is that there tends to be a limited ability to discipline those who refuse to maintain or improve their skills and who don't keep up with on-going training. Having worked both volly and paid, and having seen staff who were incredibly deficient in both education and skills in both, in my experience, dealing with the paid employee who is not performing is much easier than dealing with the volly. Too often I have seen the volly mentality of "I don't have to maintain my skills - I am just a volunteer" and for management "I can't discipline or fire them, because having a warm body is better than having no body." This puts a volly service into a very risky situation.

Now, back to the OP... this is exactly the risky situation that this service is heading for. It appears that they would rather have a warm body, that is unskilled and uneducated, than nobody. There are times, when it is better to have nobody. At least then your community is not under the mistaken impression that they will get quality care when they call 911.

As EMS moves forward, and struggles for respect both from within, and from other professions, one of the titles we have been trying so hard to get away from is the term "ambulance driver." That term infers that all we do is pick up a patient, and drive L&S to the hospital, with no care given. We need to educate people that we have both the education and skills to perform life-saving interventions when required, and provide medications to treat illnesses and minimize pain. The article in the original post just shows us how much farther we have to go to educate the community.

[tskstorm]

Um NO! I dont get this at all...

Volunteer = fail WHY? We are all trained and state certified, paid or not

Yes everyone is trained/certified. No one can ever convince me that any medical professional should volunteer their services as a hobby and maintain a full time job out of their professional field. This has nothing to do with qualifications/certifications. Yes Dr's and nurses etc... can and do volunteer, on a limited time basis usually when they take off of work show me any other medical profession where there are as many volunteers as paid providers.

A driver, not two medical professionals = fail I didnt see where it said just one and one? Maybe they need the driver to get 2 in the back

I work in a system where there is always FD or PD available or even supervisors, if in the case a patient needs both providers in back, any of them could drive. Maybe these resources don't exist in Texas, but can you imagine the quality of persons this ad attracts? Unemployed kids. 20 bucks a day to drive an ambulance around at top speed and break all sorts of traffic laws. Did the ad mention them having to going through any EVOC? or CVEO?

2 members and a driver = fail WHY? Whats so bad about that

I guess I just don't like the look of climbing out of a "clown car." For the average call this is unnecessary. We have a rule here, if ALS and BLS are both on a call (we run double medic here) and the ALS is going to take the patient. We either let the BLS go and 1 ALS provider drives the other with the patient, or The BLS drive both vehicles with both ALS in the back with the patient. For the more severe calls this works well, on your average job with not much going on, and even less things to treat/things to accomplish, this is a waste of resources. Unfortunately, there are some supervisors who think since ALS has arrived we should both be in the back no matter what the patient presents with. Essentially, 2 members and a driver should be an exception not the rule.

the last two are not even worth asking about. so don't ask

[Dustdevil]

Why would this be such a bad idea? As far as I know, you need TWO qualified people on the ambulance to fulfill a crew.

It's a bad idea because a CPR card does not make you "qualified" to drive an ambulance. I don't care if they're vollies or paid $100k a year. The driver is more liable to kill someone than any medic is, so s/he needs to be a professional, not a hobbyist who's in it for the lulz.

Not to mention that the State of Texas will probably shut this idea down quite quickly when they get wind of it. Chances of them allowing a variance for a non-certified driver in a town that is quite capable of providing certified people are slim to none.

[pinkemsprincess]

It's a bad idea because a CPR card does not make you "qualified" to drive an ambulance. I don't care if they're vollies or paid $100k a year. The driver is more liable to kill someone than any medic is, so s/he needs to be a professional, not a hobbyist who's in it for the lulz.

Not to mention that the State of Texas will probably shut this idea down quite quickly when they get wind of it. Chances of them allowing a variance for a non-certified driver in a town that is quite capable of providing certified people are slim to none.

They are quite capable individuals in many ways. These people are not hobbyist. They are simply citizens helping their community, a term apparently vacant from the vocabulary of many on this network site.

Do your homework before you go bashing on other EMS agencies ways of working. This particular service can not afford to staff that many paid providers, not to mention they have 2 medics, 2 WHOLE MEDICS!!! The rest of their service is comprised mostly of ECAs and EMTs. These are not stupid or lazy people. Just because they have some other full time job does not make them less of an EMT, ECA, or Paramedic for that matter. If anything it broadens their ability to help others for engagin them in the empthetic aspects of the job.

By the way, the State of Texas is perfectly aware of systems that work in this fashion. They MADE IT THAT WAY!!!!! Because they have sense enough to realize that not every area will be needy of fully staffed and paid services. Nor could they afford it if they wanted to. There is far too much terrain to cover.

Take note. I work for a private company, we do 14,000 calls a year in a city of 110,000 roughly. We also serve over 90% of the county we operate in, not to mention some thousands of miles of area in 3 other surrounding counties. We also provide mutual aide for some 6 or 7 additional cities on a regular basis. But we have investors and billing companies and non county acquired funding.

If your county is underpopluated, you simply can not afford paid services to the extent of what some people on here are suggesting.

[DwayneEMTP]

Did I miss something? Why is this such a fail? Because they are in need of assistance from their community? Not all EMS services have enough funding to maintain enough personnel to meet their calls and require the need to have a "driver" to meet their needs. Most of those services are lucky to have EMTs, they usually can only get ECAs. These are people who volunteer, they give of their free time to help their community.....Soooo, again. FAIL?! Why, because it sounds hokey to you?

Good questions, but I believe you will come to understand that you misunderstand some things about many volly systems. I work closely with out volly system here, and where you make your first mistake is believing that the majority of them are there to 'help their community' instead of simply trying to find the cheapest, laziest way to appear heroic. It's rare for me to come into contact with a volunteer that isn't wearing a 'Hardcore Firefighter!" T-shirt or some other such crap. They are, in my experience, for the most part, volunteering for perfectly selfish reasons and seem to have no regrets at all when they show up on scene with nothing to offer. And that's sad.

I can show you why I have a lot of confidence that that is the case where this add is run by the words they chose to use in the ad...

Qualifications for becoming a driver are minimal...

...do a few practice runs with a veteran ambulance driver.

...it takes only one evening and doesn't involve any work outside of the class....

Then, you'll wear a pager while you're on call...

Why, if what these people want to do is serve their community in the best, most productive way possible, do even the people looking for volunteers know that they need to make it clear that all you need to do is run around your community with lights and sirens, and no worries! there's none of that silly 'learnin' involved.

When someday I see a volly system that express their disappointmet over the fact that they don't get enough education, and have no requirements to learn unless the knowledge is hand fed to them, when we see some threads on the City of vollies asking how they can become more competent on their own, then I'll change my opinion.

Not to mention, there is absolutely no way that I would ride with someone encouraged and then trained in this manner. They would gain a 'driver' but lose a medic on their calls. Not a great trade in most emergencies I think.

Dwayne

Edited May 14, 2010 by DwayneEMTP