Incomplete training

[tskstorm]

Ok, just for Shits and grins let's take this route

Suppose that his instructor indeed did do what he claims he did. That the instructor did not teach him something that was going to absolutely be on the test. Suppose that the instructor was too wound up in the pending strike that he let his instruction lapse and he indeed did not fulfill the terms of his teaching requirements.

Its fun to live in fantasy world sometimes!

Let's all assume that the above is true. So what should Lifeguard do? What would you do if you were in his shoes??

This happened march of 2009 or earlier, at this point not much can be done. Time to go to another program, cut your losses and move on. He/She will spend more energy trying to rectify the situation then to just take a new course.

Let's keep away from the pat answers of "you should have learned it on your own" or "it's your fault, you needed to take some initiative to learn the stuff if your instructor was lacking"

We can try, but have you met us ? haha

Let's see where this one goes from here.

It will still turn into the same thing.

[*Lifeguard*]

One thing I can't stand is a student who fails to appropriately prepare for a practical skill and then places all blame with the threat of regulatory action on the instructor.

Please tell us EXACTLY the nature of this "highly technical" skill that you feel was not presented to you.

While you are at, please validate as to what part the strike played. I feel it to be completely irrelevant.

Maybe then we can adequately have enough information to answer you appropriately.

PCP Instructors have an obligation to exhibit exemplary behaviour in order to preserve the integrity of the industry. Paramedics is an important and learned profession. As members of this profession, PCP Instructors are expected to exhibit the highest standards of honesty and integrity. PCP Instructors have a direct and vital impact on the quality of life for all people. Accordingly, the services provided by PCP Instructors require honesty, impartiality, fairness, and equity, and must be dedicated to the protection of the public health, safety, and welfare. PCP Instructors must perform under a standard of professional behaviour that requires adherence to the highest principles of ethical conduct.

The Paramedic Academy owes a duty of care, and I believe has performed below this standard of care. Ordinary reasonable care is not the minimum for Paramedic Instructors. EMA Licencing and the Emergency and Health Services Act should have a process in place that requires PCP Instructors to report public safety issues immediately, and without undue delay. I am not convinced that the Act allows EMA Licencing to learn about these ignored public safety concerns. A process must be developed that would ensure these public safety issues are reported.

[tskstorm]

PCP Instructors have an obligation to exhibit exemplary behaviour in order to preserve the integrity of the industry. Paramedics is an important and learned profession. As members of this profession, PCP Instructors are expected to exhibit the highest standards of honesty and integrity. PCP Instructors have a direct and vital impact on the quality of life for all people. Accordingly, the services provided by PCP Instructors require honesty, impartiality, fairness, and equity, and must be dedicated to the protection of the public health, safety, and welfare. PCP Instructors must perform under a standard of professional behaviour that requires adherence to the highest principles of ethical conduct.

That's wonderful, although I don't see how its relevant.

The Paramedic Academy owes a duty of care, and I believe has performed below this standard of care. Ordinary reasonable care is not the minimum for Paramedic Instructors. EMA Licencing and the Emergency and Health Services Act should have a process in place that requires PCP Instructors to report public safety issues immediately, and without undue delay. I am not convinced that the Act allows EMA Licencing to learn about these ignored public safety concerns. A process must be developed that would ensure these public safety issues are reported.

You can keep wasting your time talking about what should, or should not be, or you can go get another education as a Paramedic or even a lawyer, and approach the board, as a professional, not just a failed student.

[*Lifeguard*]

The exam was the first time this protocol was seen. Even the Instructor had no idea how to complete it. The call was a prone trauma patient with noisy breathing. He felt it required three trained Paramedics. However, I had only one helper.

1) The first was to use a sternal/spinal grip and roll the prone patient to a partial lateral position

2) The second was to apply a modified jaw thrust

3) The third was to assess the airway, measure and insert an OPA and reasses.

The patient would be lowered back to the prone position, sandbags applied and the primary would be completede Ect....

It was crazy to think anyone could approach this with only one helper.

Ok, we will ask again,

Did you know that this protocol was going to be possibly tested?

Did you know ahead of time what that protocol was?

Please tell us about the protocol you failed?

Please give us a synopsis of what you are wanting us to do?

If you want support you can't just come in here, level a few unsubstantiated facts, disparage an instructor who is not here to defend himself and then expect that we will jump behind you just on your word.

first off we do not know you and you haven't been around here long enough to get a pass on us being skeptical.

Your first attempt at posting on here was a few months ago where you said you were a PCP student. (confused I am)

In your first attempt at posting here you were trying to re-open a months if not years old death case and wanted our support for that too. I believe that we weren't so supportive at that time either. You never came back to tell us if you succeeded in getting it reopened or not.

So this time you are trying to re-open a year or so old paramedic school situation that was found to be valid by the board that oversee's the classes or whatnot.

Please provide us with more information. It would improve your case here. If you cannot do that, then please drop this.

[Just Plain Ruff]

PCP Instructors have an obligation to exhibit exemplary behaviour in order to preserve the integrity of the industry. Paramedics is an important and learned profession. As members of this profession, PCP Instructors are expected to exhibit the highest standards of honesty and integrity. PCP Instructors have a direct and vital impact on the quality of life for all people. Accordingly, the services provided by PCP Instructors require honesty, impartiality, fairness, and equity, and must be dedicated to the protection of the public health, safety, and welfare. PCP Instructors must perform under a standard of professional behaviour that requires adherence to the highest principles of ethical conduct.

The Paramedic Academy owes a duty of care, and I believe has performed below this standard of care. Ordinary reasonable care is not the minimum for Paramedic Instructors. EMA Licencing and the Emergency and Health Services Act should have a process in place that requires PCP Instructors to report public safety issues immediately, and without undue delay. I am not convinced that the Act allows EMA Licencing to learn about these ignored public safety concerns. A process must be developed that would ensure these public safety issues are reported.

Dude, you are saying the same thing without giving us any more information. I believe you have said this already in this thread.

Do you see where your credibility is lacking here and this is why you are getting hammered.

If you would give concrete examples as to where this academy and it's agents performed below this standard of care it would help your case incredibly.

Just saying that you believe the instructor and academy performed below this standard.

Maybe you should get a attorney to review the standards of the act you are relying on to make your case.

Plus, what the heck are you coming here for? Seriously, all this place is good for (for complaints like yours) is to armchair quarterbacking. I don't think there is anyone in any level of power at the EMA that can help you here.

I would have thought by your reception the last time you came here you would have realized that you have to make a better case than just explaining your feelings and opinions without truly giving us facts.

In fact, you have not even given us the protocol you failed which makes it very difficult to give you good advice.

If indeed your instructor was a boob and you got bad instruction, it was incumbent on you to study the stuff that he didn't cover.

Spenac has it right, if students would study more than they currently do instead of expecting the stuff to be spoonfed to them, we'd have little use for instructors at all.

Seriously, paramedicine isn't rocket science, what you get from class is only the tip of the iceberg.

Do students these days expect to get spoonfed the information they need to work the streets? Or are there preceptors that make their preceptees have to think and only jump in when they are going to make a mistake?

If anyone remembers the old ACLS (torture class) where you actually had to learn and GASP, you could actually fail unlike now where we can't offend the sensibilities of the masses and not fail them no matter how horribly awful they performed.

The exam was the first time this protocol was seen. Even the Instructor had no idea how to complete it. The call was a prone trauma patient with noisy breathing. He felt it required three trained Paramedics. However, I had only one helper.

1) The first was to use a sternal/spinal grip and roll the prone patient to a partial lateral position

2) The second was to apply a modified jaw thrust

3) The third was to assess the airway, measure and insert an OPA and reasses.

The patient would be lowered back to the prone position, sandbags applied and the primary would be completede Ect....

It was crazy to think anyone could approach this with only one helper.

Ahhh now we get some solid things to look at.

What part did you fail?

You should not have failed the modified jaw thrust

You also should not have failed the OPA

So I assume you failed the 1st one. WEre you able to veribalize that you'd be using a third person for this or did they not allow it.

See now we're getting somewhere.

[tskstorm]

The exam was the first time this protocol was seen. Even the Instructor had no idea how to complete it. The call was a prone trauma patient with noisy breathing. He felt it required three trained Paramedics. However, I had only one helper.

1) The first was to use a sternal/spinal grip and roll the prone patient to a partial lateral position

2) The second was to apply a modified jaw thrust

3) The third was to assess the airway, measure and insert an OPA and reasses.

The patient would be lowered back to the prone position, sandbags applied and the primary would be completede Ect....

It was crazy to think anyone could approach this with only one helper.

Ready for this one ? Any cop, firefighter, bystander, can do a modified jaw thrust if you tell them put your hands here and do this. I don't see why you couldn't roll the patient supine and the person holding stabilization could also to the modified jaw thrust. Truth is while prone, put a long board on his back, roll him and there you go took away an entire step in your care.

This is not even close to complicated. I understand in Canada Paramedic = US EMT right ? because if they are equivalent you didn't belong in the class to begin with.

[*Lifeguard*]

Dude, you are saying the same thing without giving us any more information. I believe you have said this already in this thread.

Do you see where your credibility is lacking here and this is why you are getting hammered.

If you would give concrete examples as to where this academy and it's agents performed below this standard of care it would help your case incredibly.

Just saying that you believe the instructor and academy performed below this standard.

Maybe you should get a attorney to review the standards of the act you are relying on to make your case.

Plus, what the heck are you coming here for? Seriously, all this place is good for (for complaints like yours) is to armchair quarterbacking. I don't think there is anyone in any level of power at the EMA that can help you here.

I would have thought by your reception the last time you came here you would have realized that you have to make a better case than just explaining your feelings and opinions without truly giving us facts.

In fact, you have not even given us the protocol you failed which makes it very difficult to give you good advice.

If indeed your instructor was a boob and you got bad instruction, it was incumbent on you to study the stuff that he didn't cover.

Spenac has it right, if students would study more than they currently do instead of expecting the stuff to be spoonfed to them, we'd have little use for instructors at all.

Seriously, paramedicine isn't rocket science, what you get from class is only the tip of the iceberg.

Do students these days expect to get spoonfed the information they need to work the streets? Or are there preceptors that make their preceptees have to think and only jump in when they are going to make a mistake?

If anyone remembers the old ACLS (torture class) where you actually had to learn and GASP, you could actually fail unlike now where we can't offend the sensibilities of the masses and not fail them no matter how horribly awful they performed.

Ahhh now we get some solid things to look at.

What part did you fail?

You should not have failed the modified jaw thrust

You also should not have failed the OPA

So I assume you failed the 1st one. WEre you able to veribalize that you'd be using a third person for this or did they not allow it.

See now we're getting somewhere.

The protocol presented during the trauma exam addressed a prone patient with noisy breathing. The patient had a fractured hip, c-spine issues, tib/fib fracture with moderate bleeding. I had one helper.

However, the exam required the student to use a sternal/spinal grip and roll to a partial lateral. The second helper would apply a modified jaw thrust, assess the airway, suction if necessary, measure and insert an OPA. The patient would then be lowered back to the prone position and the primary would be completed ect.

The examinor thought it would require three trained helpers. The exam was the first time this was ever seen.

[Just Plain Ruff]

The protocol presented during the trauma exam addressed a prone patient with noisy breathing. The patient had a fractured hip, c-spine issues, tib/fib fracture with moderate bleeding. I had one helper.

However, the exam required the student to use a sternal/spinal grip and roll to a partial lateral. The second helper would apply a modified jaw thrust, assess the airway, suction if necessary, measure and insert an OPA. The patient would then be lowered back to the prone position and the primary would be completed ect.

The examinor thought it would require three trained helpers. The exam was the first time this was ever seen.

If the examiner thought it required 3 helpers and he only had one then the exam should not have taken place or there should have been modifications made.

I see your point on this one but once you get out in the EMS world(not sure if you are there yet) you will realize that you have to sometimes modify things to make them work.

You also should have spoken up and addressed this with the person running the exam.

I have no idea whether you have a case or not but I think you have been told you don't.

I'd move on to other things now. I think you have pushed this as far as it can go here.

[Richard B the EMT]

@ Lifeguard:

From my initial EMT class, and through all of my refreshers taken over the last 37 years, the instructors have always given us a sheet informing us what was to be covered on any particular day, including reading assignments in the textbooks as prep for the following day. I'm presumptuous enough to believe this is the case in all EMT or Paramedic training programs.

Was this NOT the case with your program?

[mobey]

Lifeguard has begun personally attacking forum members on our Canadian site, and should be banned soon.

Just a warning to put your Troll alerts on high!