akflightmedic Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 As in go make amends and try to seize the money which has now been taken off the table...meaning they passed up on a significant opportunity...FREE PUBLIC money...they passed on it. They need to quit their whining, go eat some crow and attempt to seize the money they have missed out on. Seized because it is hostile what they are doing. This small little church was offered a shit ton of cash and they demanded more. As for where I got this info...there is this thing called Google. After entering the terms Greek church at ground zero thousands of articles appeared. I read dozens of articles before making my comments as I wanted to read information from various sources and see which facts remained consistent. I also read the smaller articles from the years between 2002-2009 when none of this was in the news other than small blurbs here and there as that is where you will find the real meat and potatoes in stead of when it is sensationalized and splashed all over, everywhere with people jumping on the emotional bandwagon aspect without knowing the facts (such as you did). It is not a islam/christian thing...this all boiled down to greed/corruption within the church (again---geez imagine that).
Just Plain Ruff Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 ok, yep I did jump on it. Fair enough. Time to go do some reading. It's good you aren't partial to one particular side, good of you to remain objective. Off to search google now.
Richard B the EMT Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 The church is actually OLD news. Version I heard was, they wanted to rebuild on the same site, but were denied permission (don't recall by whom) to rebuild to the original size. They literally were being downsized.
akflightmedic Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 I dunno...a 1200 sq ft facility which was adequate for how many decades??? I also doubt the 70 family claim as they have every reason to stretch numbers to justify continued presence. One person with a dog who attends services 2 x a year could be part of their "census" family counting.
Lone Star Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 One of the initial 'rubbing points' in that Port Authority deal was the fact that the Christian church was limited in the size and height that it could build to, while the cultural center was pretty well unrestricted. If I remember correctly, the church was told that it couldn't dwarf or obstruct the construction at ground zero, but the cultural center is allowed to overshadow it in height. I said it before and I'll say it again, if you're going to place restrictions on one, place them on all; and if you're going to allow one to have special priveliges, then you have to grant those same priveliges to all. You cannot grant special dispensations to one group while denying the same dispensations to another group so that you wont offend the first group. This is NOT how you promote healing, harmony and unity of the two diverse groups. If you go back and read through the earlier posts, there should be links to this information as well (providing that the links are still active).
Just Plain Ruff Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) I dunno...a 1200 sq ft facility which was adequate for how many decades??? I also doubt the 70 family claim as they have every reason to stretch numbers to justify continued presence. One person with a dog who attends services 2 x a year could be part of their "census" family counting. That's true AK, Our church says it has about 5000+ members. But on a normal sunday we might get around 900 on a really good sunday. Where are those other 4100 people? they are people who have joined but don't attend regularly, those who are shut ins and various other reasons. But they still are members none the less so they get counted. You can doubt the 70 family claim but since you nor I nor anyone else here knows for sure, that's all it is, a doubt. Edited August 25, 2011 by Ruffems
akflightmedic Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Ok, so lets extrapolate the numbers for shits and giggles. Your church has 5000 people and 900 attend on a good day. That reflects 18%. This church has 70 families (lets assume 4 people per family) so 280 people are members. 18% of 280 = 50.4 people roughly. So a church which houses 50 people regularly and 280 when in force was offered a 24000 sq ft facility and 20M cash....what would YOUR congregation do if that came along?
Just Plain Ruff Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Ok, so lets extrapolate the numbers for shits and giggles. Your church has 5000 people and 900 attend on a good day. That reflects 18%. This church has 70 families (lets assume 4 people per family) so 280 people are members. 18% of 280 = 50.4 people roughly. So a church which houses 50 people regularly and 280 when in force was offered a 24000 sq ft facility and 20M cash....what would YOUR congregation do if that came along? Well I'd suspect that the leaders of the Church wouldn't act like buttheads and take the offer under serious consideration. But if they chose to turn it down I would respect their decision as they have the big picture in hand when I don't have that ability. If they started to ask for more money and that kind of crap I'd sure want answers from the church leadership. I am more than sure that many of our members would say "take the money and if you don't then we are leaving" but that's what would happen to many groups of non-religious basis as well, surely you can't dispute that can you? but seriously, what is a church or any organization of the size that we are talking about going to do with a building that is 10 times as big (or 5 times as big) if they don't have the members to fill it? I can say that my congregation would want the extras but like I have said, so would any organization. There will always be those who will demand more and more but I have to rely on our church leadership to temper the demands of the congregation with what is realistic. If they can't do that then I don't want to be a part of that church or organization. In all seriousness, my church has that many members but we have an entire wing of the old church that is sitting unused. I don't know what we'd do with that extra space. Our church is actually about 30000 square feet already so the comparison offer would have to be around 400K square foot to make your analogy be comparable.
DFIB Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) I have always found it interesting that we have to label people, by religion or the like. Many things have been done in the name of religion over the centuries. Christian religions are as guilty as muslims, just we now call them the Crusades. Can we call the likes of David Koresh a terrorist, dressed in religious clothing? Many of the teachings, regardless of the religion are targetet at those who are suseptable to suggestion. Was Koresh a terrorist? Did he ever commit an act of terrorism? Who killed innocent women and children at Waco? I would be more inclined to think the terrorist in that case were Clinton and Reno with their Jack Booted thugs. As far as the mosque. We should not be naive to believe that the location was chosen out of convenience. Do they have the right to build? Yes Does it piss me off that America haters all over the world will laugh and cheer that our freedom is used against us? Yes Is there a fair solution? Not one that I would like. Edited August 25, 2011 by DFIB
crotchitymedic1986 Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Wow 27 pages, that has to be a record. You guys know how i feel about muslims so I do not support the mosque and ground zero, but what do you guys think about the same controversy that is going on in Murfreesboro Tennessee. There is a mosque that has been there 30 years and they want to build a huge new one, and the locals are not happy. I think 60 minutes did a story on it too. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/us/31mosque.html Is it right to allow all other churchs to build, but not let the muslim churchs build ?
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