Just Plain Ruff Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 We have all heard by now the hullaballoo over the Arizona law that has gotten everyone to stand on one side of the fence or the other. We have administration officials who have admittedly not read the bill (I'm sure they've read it now) - Eric holder and Janet Napolitano admitted in front of congressional committee hearings that they had not read the bill. A senior State department official also admitted on national television that he had not read it. All three are calling it unconstitutional. So I have three questions. 1. Have you read the 12 pages of the law? 2. Where do you stand on the whole controversy? Do you stand with Arizona or do you stand with those against Arizona? 3. Do you think this was a good law to pass, a bad law to pass or a misguided law? Please keep this civil.
crotchitymedic1986 Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 Its a racist law, luckily this time it is against the other brown people. Anyone who has been pulled over for DWB (driving while black) knows that the police do not need a real reason to harass you. With that being said, I feel Arizona's pain and understand why they have decided to take action due to the Federal Governments inaction. These people are just trying to find a better life, why is that so wrong. And for all of you who say that illegals take american's jobs = the unemployment rate has been high for two years and i still dont see any unemployed americans doing landscaping or harvesting crops for a living.
Kaisu Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 I live in Arizona and I took a wait and see attitude about the law. For me, it was about how it was to be interpreted and applied. The past month or so has shown me that it is a bad law. I thought that if the cops had probable cause to arrest someone for violent crime, or robbery, and they checked for valid US residency, and the individual was an illegal, we could ship them across the border, saving ourselves the time expense and trouble of a trial. What happened? A disgruntled employee turns a company in for hiring undocumented individuals. Law abiding, hard working folks are deported for not having the proper documents, even when one of them was brought to this country by his parents and had lived in the US since he was 7 years old. That is wrong. It is a bad law, improperly written and abused by publicity seeking pols with racist attitudes and self serving agendas.
JTpaintball70 Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 Read it, agree with it. It's essentially the state enforcing federal immigration laws (about time someone did).
crotchitymedic1986 Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 What it says, and what it is in reality is two different things. Its like your Policy and Procedure book at work; it says one thing, individual medics choose to do the opposite every day.
HERBIE1 Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 Essentially the only thing this law does is reiterate what has already been established. Penalties for employers are spelled out, procedures for reporting companies who employ illegals, penalties for human trafficking of illegals, etc. And yes, there are provisions for establishing probable cause for stopping and questioning a suspected illegal. Traffic violation means they can stop someone and ask for identification. If the person is illegal, then obviously, unless they have already established a new identity, they cannot produce a drivers license, proof of insurance, etc. They can be detained. Profiling is part of being a cop. Behavioral patterns, physical traits, location, and yes, things like race and gender are part of that profile. Racial profiling means the only reason someone is detained or targeted is their race/ethnicity. The law does NOT allow that. Here's the deal- I have been profiled- at the time I was in my mid to late 30's. One day, when I was working in the ghetto, I was on my way to pick up my paycheck, when I was stopped by the police. Since I was probably the only white male within 5 miles of where I was- an area known for drugs, violence, prostitution, and gangs and I fit the profile of someone looking for some dope or looking for a quickie. When I produced my ID, explained who I was, and why I was in the area, the officers apologized, but the reason they stopped me was because I did not belong in that area. So does that mean I was guilty of DWW in the ghetto? (Driving While White) Yep, and I deserved to be pulled over.
crotchitymedic1986 Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 Essentially the only thing this law does is reiterate what has already been established. Penalties for employers are spelled out, procedures for reporting companies who employ illegals, penalties for human trafficking of illegals, etc. And yes, there are provisions for establishing probable cause for stopping and questioning a suspected illegal. Traffic violation means they can stop someone and ask for identification. If the person is illegal, then obviously, unless they have already established a new identity, they cannot produce a drivers license, proof of insurance, etc. They can be detained. Profiling is part of being a cop. Behavioral patterns, physical traits, location, and yes, things like race and gender are part of that profile. Racial profiling means the only reason someone is detained or targeted is their race/ethnicity. The law does NOT allow that. Here's the deal- I have been profiled- at the time I was in my mid to late 30's. One day, when I was working in the ghetto, I was on my way to pick up my paycheck, when I was stopped by the police. Since I was probably the only white male within 5 miles of where I was- an area known for drugs, violence, prostitution, and gangs and I fit the profile of someone looking for some dope or looking for a quickie. When I produced my ID, explained who I was, and why I was in the area, the officers apologized, but the reason they stopped me was because I did not belong in that area. So does that mean I was guilty of DWW in the ghetto? (Driving While White) Yep, and I deserved to be pulled over. Why did you deserve to be pulled over, just because you were driving in area that your race is not popular in ? Yes, you might have been up to trouble, but if they did not see you committing a crime, there is no legitimate reason to pull you over. But I am glad you got a taste of our life.
Just Plain Ruff Posted June 8, 2010 Author Posted June 8, 2010 Why did you deserve to be pulled over, just because you were driving in area that your race is not popular in ? Yes, you might have been up to trouble, but if they did not see you committing a crime, there is no legitimate reason to pull you over. But I am glad you got a taste of our life. Let me ask you this. If racial profiling is such a BAD problem let me ask this. I read the statistics for last years traffic stops for both Kansas City Missouri Police and the Raymore police department. The KC Police made around 75000 car stops that were reported.(do not remember exact numbers) (do not reply with - well what about the unreported stops) They stopped 46000 whites 26000 blacks and the rest were other races. The arrest numbers were 4500 whites and about 2000 blacks. Those numbers to me don't suggest racial profiling The numbers for Raymore were even more disparate 10000 stops ( can't remember exact figures) 7200 whites with 800 or so arrests 2000 blacks with 50 or so arrests I can't see the racial profiling. I'm sure the numbers in other cities are higher and more disparate but I just can't see racial profiling in these numbers. Sure you can say that they picked out the blacks and stopped them but I don't buy it. The police departments are more under the magnifying glass than ever. They are more aware of what is racial profling I may be way off. I would be curious to see what the numbers of white officers versus black officers were. Do white cops pull over more blacks than black cops do? But seriously, the old adage like the all terrorists are muslims, all black males are criminals. That just doesn't fly in my book.
crotchitymedic1986 Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 It rained in my backyard today, therefore it must have rained in yours ? I do not have any stray dogs in my yard right now, so there must not be any strays anymore ? I am glad that you can cite some statistics from two small areas of the country, but I promise you that the national prison statistics on race are anything but equal. I imagine that the cops in Alaska dont pull over too many black folks either (probably because both the black people in Alaska are already in jail). But back to the original question that I asked, why is driving legally in an area that your race is not the majority, a reason to pull you over ?
CBEMT Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 But I am glad you got a taste of our life. I'd love to know what technology you think the police have that can see through the headrest of a driver's seat so the officer can see what race the driver is- especially at night.
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