Mass. EMTs: Punishment for Fake Certification Is Unfair

[Richard B the EMT]

Where do I get my fake medical degree?

Check the word processor in your computer, mine has some good stuff could be used.

I mentioned prison time earlier. Let me add to that, they should be documented in the federal database that the LEOs use to find out if a vehicle they stopped, and the persons inside it, might be wanted in another jurisdiction, aside from where they were stopped. I think the database is called NCIC, but I am hazy as to what the initials stand for (National Criminal Information Computer?).

[croaker260]

100 times this. A lot of refreshers are nothing more than 24 hours of time that active providers will never get back. After my first refresher, I promised myself that I'd avoid them as much as possible (last NREMT recert was done by exam). However, just because I question the actual value of many of the refresher courses, I don't gain the right to just ignore the requirement.

While you qouted the first part of my post, I wish you had mentioned the rest of it.

REFRESHERS DONT HAVE TO BE BORING AND USELESS.

They can be fun, informative, and worth the time to sit in them. You just have to have the motivation of the instructors, the creative mindset, and be willing to involve a LOT of subject matter experts.

The annual refresher course we do at my service is my biggest head ache to coordinate (I probably teach less than 25% personally, but I am there for 100% to monitor the guest instructors and be a "co instructor" to meet state requiremnts) but its worth it when its done.

When a (approx) 30 year lifeflight paramedic comes up and says "I really enjoyed that (52 hour) long week, great job"...then something must be being done right.

My point is not to blow my own horn, but to point out that we complane too much about our educational standards and do NOTHING to improve them at our own microspopic street level.

Rant off.

[CBEMT]

The other thing to keep in mind is that many of the suspensions issued by MAOEMS were for only 45 days. If this broad caught a 9-month rip, clearly someone at the state (Commonwealth, sorry ) thinks she did something extra-special bad. Which she conveniently does not mention.

[Lone Star]

The other thing to keep in mind is that many of the suspensions issued by MAOEMS were for only 45 days. If this broad caught a 9-month rip, clearly someone at the state (Commonwealth, sorry ) thinks she did something extra-special bad. Which she conveniently does not mention.

Apparently, the nine month suspension was the 'norm' for this whole fiasco. According to my count, the 211 punishments break down like this:

• 
  
  
• 45 Day Suspension: 22
  
• Nine Month Suspension: 181
  
• Two year suspension: 4
  
• Permanent Revocations: 2
  
• Nine Months and revocation of I/C: 1
  
• Nine Months and Revocation of State Examniner: 1
  

"EMT Master List." thebostonchannel.com. N.p., n.d. Web. 3 Jul 2010. <http://www.thebostonchannel.com/download/2010/0621/23981055.pdf>.

[cosgrojo]

My understanding is the 45 day ones were CPR refreshers. 9 months were the EMT refreshers. The rest were the people in charge of the programs, "teaching" the programs, signing the rosters, and making the decisions.

[Lone Star]

Apparently, the nine month suspension was the 'norm' for this whole fiasco. According to my count, the 211 punishments break down like this:

• 
  
  
• 45 Day Suspension: 22
  
• Nine Month Suspension: 181
  
• Two year suspension: 4
  
• Permanent Revocations: 2
  
• Nine Months and revocation of I/C: 1
  
• Nine Months and Revocation of State Examniner: 1
  

"EMT Master List." thebostonchannel.com. N.p., n.d. Web. 3 Jul 2010. <http://www.thebostonchannel.com/download/2010/0621/23981055.pdf>.

My understanding is the 45 day ones were CPR refreshers. 9 months were the EMT refreshers. The rest were the people in charge of the programs, "teaching" the programs, signing the rosters, and making the decisions.

If this is the same thing I heard about before, it is in regards to CPR cards.

Now, I know this is taboo and everything, but for the sake of discussion who here doesn't know someone who has had a friend "get him/her a card" for their CPR refresher? It happens all of the time in professional EMS, because a lot of people feel that it is a waste of time to re re-learn how to pump and blow when we do it so often. A lot of people also feel like CPR refresher is more about $$ for the AHA than actual education or proficiency.

...Even for those who attend the class, can you honestly say it is conducted in a serious and rigorous manner? Most of the CPR classes I've been are nothing more than rubber stamp conventions. How is that practice any better than just having a friend/instructor refresh your card for you?

I hope I'm misreading this! It seems that fiz is saying that it't not that big of a deal because it's 'only CPR cards'

Judging from the 'breakdown' of things, it looks like the majority was because of EMS CEU's (Continuing Education Units)/'Refreshers'.

Personally, I don't care if it was continuing education for tying EMS boots! The whole point is that these people cut corners and obtained current certifications/licenses when they weren't in compliance with the rules.

I'm actually apalled at the cavalier attitude that some have on this subject. We all cry 'foul' when we're not treated as a respectable member of the emergency services, and yet we stoop to such despicably abhorrent behavior.

I've said this before, and it bears repeating. I don't care what the 'offense' was, everyone involved needs to have their certifications and licenses permanently revoked.

To claim that 'taking someone's livelyhood away isn't fair', well let's talk about 'unfair'. Is it 'fair' to those patients that were treated by these fraudulent EMT/Medics? Is it 'fair' to the general public that these Instructor/Co-ordinators and State Examiners allowed this to ever happen?

If these people had expended the same amount of effort and money to obtain proper documentation as they did to obtain fraudulent ones, none of this would have happened and none of them would be faciing punitive action. A 'mere CPR card only takes a few hours in one evening to do things 'the right way'.

In Michigan, to renew my EMT-B, I had to sit through 30 different classes over 3 years in order to obtain enough CEU's (Continuing Education Units) to be eligible to renew my license. Most of these involved sitting in a class for a while and were free (Michigan didn't allow for online CEU's). The only 'investment' was an evening at a time. I don't know how MA does their CEU's, but it obviously can't be THAT different!

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch/CE_Record_Form_BHPPA-EMS-127_12-06_186795_7.pdf

Based on my experiences with license renewal with the State of Michigan (renewed 3 times after the initial license was issued), the key to doing this was not waiting till the last minute to start the CEU's. It seems apparent that these individuals waited until the last minute to start the process, and attempted to take the easy way out.

"Emergency Medical Services Personnel." Forms and Publications for EMS. Michigan Department of Community Health, n.d. Web. 3 Jul 2010. <http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch/CE_Record_Form_BHPPA-EMS-127_12-06_186795_7.pdf>.

[cosgrojo]

Personally, I don't care if it was continuing education for tying EMS boots! The whole point is that these people cut corners and obtained current certifications/licenses when they weren't in compliance with the rules.

I'm actually apalled at the cavalier attitude that some have on this subject. We all cry 'foul' when we're not treated as a respectable member of the emergency services, and yet we stoop to such despicably abhorrent behavior.

I couldn't agree with this statement more. There is no room for cheats in my version of EMS... I have no sympathy for these suspended individuals... some of which I know personally. I don't like having to do refreshers, and I am taking full advantage of the "exam in Lieu of" option (for New Hampshire & NR), but I would never take a fraudulent class and lie to the State licensing people just because it was easier than actually going to a class.

I don't know how MA does their CEU's, but it obviously can't be THAT different!

It is different... and it is a lot easier. You only have to complete 28 hours of con ed every two years for the EMT-B level, and ALL con-ed can be obtained via on-line sources. The course has to have a MASS OEMS approval number, or be CCEMBS certified... No other requirements... accepted without question. Re-licensing in Mass is the easiest State to relicense in the three States that I have held cards in (it costs 150 smackers though... you pay for the convenience I suppose.

[Chief1C]

So some of them are being allowed to keep their fake certs? I want my fake medical license.

[emtannie]

As fiznat quoted in a related thread, and Lone quoted above:

“Now, I know this is taboo and everything, but for the sake of discussion who here doesn't know someone who has had a friend "get him/her a card" for their CPR refresher? It happens all of the time in professional EMS, because a lot of people feel that it is a waste of time to re re-learn how to pump and blow when we do it so often. A lot of people also feel like CPR refresher is more about $$ for the AHA than actual education or proficiency.

...Even for those who attend the class, can you honestly say it is conducted in a serious and rigorous manner? Most of the CPR classes I've been are nothing more than rubber stamp conventions. How is that practice any better than just having a friend/instructor refresh your card for you?”

Actually, there are instructors who do conduct their classes in a serious manner, and I would like to think I am one of them. If an instructor doesn’t follow the standards set for materials covered in class, the time frame minimums, and the testing standards, they can (and should!) have their instructor certification revoked.

Yes, there are those who hand out cards, and rubber stamp classes, and that is not just unfortunate, but unethical, and defeats the point of the refresher or recertification.

I will echo croaker’s comments, that just because it is a refresher, does not mean that it has to be coma-inducing. There are lots of ways to make a refresher course interesting, and enjoyable for the students. Instructors that do not try to make it enjoyable as well as educational for their students should not be in front of a class.

We have all sat through recerts and courses that have been boring. This does not make it an excuse not to attend, and to falsify documents to maintain your certification, which is what the people in the original article did.

There is still not excuse for their actions, and they should not just be suspended, they should lose their jobs. A slap on the wrist is not enough.

Would you accept a doctor saying “I didn’t take the refresher, even though it is a requirement, because I believe the refresher course has no bearing on competence and knowledge, and I falsified my documents to maintain my license”? Would you be comfortable with him treating your loved one? There is no difference.