Training With PERCOM

[Starlight]

I'm looking for comments or suggestions by anyone who either has gone through or is in training with PERCOM or has heard of others who have. What's your experience been? I'm specifically looking at their online Paramedic course.

Thanks!

[spenac]

Never took a class there but did take classes with the founder of it when she owned then worked for another site. If you are going to take an online program no one better than Jane at percom as she believes in quality education.

[Starlight]

Thanks! That's great to know! Yeah, I'm just basically wanting to know if it's a quality, dependable, trustworthy program.

[spenac]

Thanks! That's great to know! Yeah, I'm just basically wanting to know if it's a quality, dependable, trustworthy program.

As a former student and a friend of Janes I am sure she is trustworthy.

[tcripp]

I took the Instructor course with Percom and was very pleased in my experience. During that time, I found Jane to be very fair. If something didn't fit her expectation, it was returned with explanation and I would have the opportunity to redo the assignment until it met standards. At the completion of the program, I passed both her final as well as the State Licensure Exam - first time. To me, that speaks volume to any program.

Now, for my disclaimer, I have continued my relationship with Percom and have been interning as an instructor with Jane (mostly grading papers and running scenarios in chat rooms). When we see that someone may not be right on the mark, assignments here also get returned so that the student can take a second stab at it. Ultimately, we want to make sure you get the most out of your education. I'm working on becoming a lead instructor and am very pleased with my association.

If you choose this route, I think you will be please with this program.

Toni

[spenac]

I took the Instructor course with Percom and was very pleased in my experience. During that time, I found Jane to be very fair. If something didn't fit her expectation, it was returned with explanation and I would have the opportunity to redo the assignment until it met standards. At the completion of the program, I passed both her final as well as the State Licensure Exam - first time. To me, that speaks volume to any program.

Now, for my disclaimer, I have continued my relationship with Percom and have been interning as an instructor with Jane (mostly grading papers and running scenarios in chat rooms). When we see that someone may not be right on the mark, assignments here also get returned so that the student can take a second stab at it. Ultimately, we want to make sure you get the most out of your education. I'm working on becoming a lead instructor and am very pleased with my association.

If you choose this route, I think you will be please with this program.

Toni

So how goes your work with Jane? Any word on her getting the program accredited?

[DwayneEMTP]

I'm looking for comments or suggestions by anyone who either has gone through or is in training with PERCOM or has heard of others who have. What's your experience been? I'm specifically looking at their online Paramedic course.

Thanks!

I'm not familiar with the head of this school or the school itself, but I think that there are some significant questions you need to consider before you choose this path....

Why would you choose to take an online course as opposed to getting a brick and mortar education? Is it that it's cheap? In my experience you often get what you pay for. More convenient? If you were to discover that it is a half asses school (which I'm certainly not claiming that it is) would you still choose to take it instead of making the necessary sacrifices to go to a community college? If the answer is yes then you've just become part of the EMS problem instead of part of the solution.

I went through the site pretty well, at least the paramedic portion, though I could have missed much, and though I can find pages of information concerning payments and refund explanations, which I think is honest and relevant, I couldn't find any information really concerning the education. They claim to have a higher than average first time pass rate for NREMTP, but you really should be able to teach a dancing monkey to pass the NR without a whole lot of trouble if that is your focus. What I didn't see were any prerequisites. I truly believe that college level anatomy and physiology are vital to becoming a skilled provider, and it doesn't appear that those are necessary here, nor could I find where it showed to be a significant part of the online education. Again, I didn't read every page and if I've missed it I have every confidence that spenac will point it out for me.

It's not clear what the clinicals consist of either. Who supervises them? Who will you spend your ride time and hospital time with? Will there be any hospital time? As I don't believe it is required by the DOT curriculum, though again I'm not sure. If the rest of your education is going to be spent alone, you really, really need to be sure that your clinical time will be high quality and focused.

There are significant questions here I think. You might even want to call around to your local agencies and see if they are willing to hire paramedics that have graduated from an online course. I would be terribly hesitant to do so.

EMS is a contact sport. It requires people that are able to touch patients, use their hands, confront others when necessary, lead groups, manage human and mechanical resources. Those things can not be learned in any significant way behind a computer. I believe that many mature adults will come to EMS education with a significant part of these particular skill sets, but those that are a bit younger...well, I just don't see them developing those skills in a vacuum. A huge part of AAS degree EMS education involves learning while doing. Thinking about doing is not even in the same universe as the actual doing.

Tcripp and spenac both claim to have a personal relationship with the woman that runs the school and say that she is honorable. Spenac and I aren't exactly buddies, but I've nothing but respect for tcripps opinions to date and have no reason to dubt her, the problem is that there are honorable people turning out whackers every day.

Unless you simply have a hardon for a patch that allows you to run lights and sirens in an ambulance I believe that a very close look is warranted here.

Dwayne

[spenac]

I'm not familiar with the head of this school or the school itself, but I think that there are some significant questions you need to consider before you choose this path....

Why would you choose to take an online course as opposed to getting a brick and mortar education? Is it that it's cheap? In my experience you often get what you pay for. More convenient? If you were to discover that it is a half asses school (which I'm certainly not claiming that it is) would you still choose to take it instead of making the necessary sacrifices to go to a community college? If the answer is yes then you've just become part of the EMS problem instead of part of the solution.

I went through the site pretty well, at least the paramedic portion, though I could have missed much, and though I can find pages of information concerning payments and refund explanations, which I think is honest and relevant, I couldn't find any information really concerning the education. They claim to have a higher than average first time pass rate for NREMTP, but you really should be able to teach a dancing monkey to pass the NR without a whole lot of trouble if that is your focus. What I didn't see were any prerequisites. I truly believe that college level anatomy and physiology are vital to becoming a skilled provider, and it doesn't appear that those are necessary here, nor could I find where it showed to be a significant part of the online education. Again, I didn't read every page and if I've missed it I have every confidence that spenac will point it out for me.

It's not clear what the clinicals consist of either. Who supervises them? Who will you spend your ride time and hospital time with? Will there be any hospital time? As I don't believe it is required by the DOT curriculum, though again I'm not sure. If the rest of your education is going to be spent alone, you really, really need to be sure that your clinical time will be high quality and focused.

There are significant questions here I think. You might even want to call around to your local agencies and see if they are willing to hire paramedics that have graduated from an online course. I would be terribly hesitant to do so.

EMS is a contact sport. It requires people that are able to touch patients, use their hands, confront others when necessary, lead groups, manage human and mechanical resources. Those things can not be learned in any significant way behind a computer. I believe that many mature adults will come to EMS education with a significant part of these particular skill sets, but those that are a bit younger...well, I just don't see them developing those skills in a vacuum. A huge part of AAS degree EMS education involves learning while doing. Thinking about doing is not even in the same universe as the actual doing.

Tcripp and spenac both claim to have a personal relationship with the woman that runs the school and say that she is honorable. Spenac and I aren't exactly buddies, but I've nothing but respect for tcripps opinions to date and have no reason to dubt her, the problem is that there are honorable people turning out whackers every day.

Unless you simply have a hardon for a patch that allows you to run lights and sirens in an ambulance I believe that a very close look is warranted here.

Dwayne

Very good points for people to consider for any school they consider attending. I will say it is easier to get a course completion in a standard college or other classroom course than it is in this and the other quality online programs. Also just like there are diploma mills that have standard classes and that includes college level as well there are some online diploma mills as well.

I will not try and answer all points as I am not affiliated with the school so can not speak to all of them. But a few points clinicals yes they have hospital and ambulance sites that they work with.

As to hiring I would venture to say that the majority of services will never ask if you took a hybrid online course such as Percom or went to a college classroom or even a 10 week Paramedic course, they just want a Paramedic. Until other major changes occur most companies including many of the quality ones only ask that you have approval to work in the state you are applying in. So really that is a mute point.

As to prerequisites I do not know what they require but I do know many college level Paramedics do not require A&P, they just do the condensed version that is found in the Paramedic text. Though I actually agree with you that it should be required but again until more places get on board hard to really say a school is bad if doesn't require it when not many do, and many that do have the it required allow the condensed Paramedic level A&P that will not transfer towards getting your RN.

If a person just wants to run L&S there are many faster and easier ways to get certified than taking an online course.

As to NR testing I agree pass rate does not a quality program make. Wow Dwayne we agreed on multiple points in this discussion maybe there's hope for peace in the middle east after all.

[DwayneEMTP]

...I will say it is easier to get a course completion in a standard college or other classroom course than it is in this and the other quality online programs.

What do you base this statement on? I'm not aware of knowing any graduates of these programs and have never taken one...

Also just like there are diploma mills that have standard classes and that includes college level as well there are some online diploma mills as well.

Agreed. And I hope that I made it clear that I wasn't labeling this school as one. Only attempting to show the OP that if s/he wanted to be different in EMS that there was likely not going to be a convenient, shorter way to do so.

...But a few points clinicals yes they have hospital and ambulance sites that they work with.

Again, I have no doubt, but the quality of those clinical programs varies greatly, perhaps more greatly than the quality of schools. I believe that in a program that teaches paramedic medicine online that the clinicals must be planned and focused on the limitations that are inherent in that. Simply giving a student an ambulance to ride on or an ER to attend to is not going to get it done in this instance I believe.

As to hiring I would venture to say that the majority of services will never ask if you took a hybrid online course such as Percom or went to a college classroom or even a 10 week Paramedic course, they just want a Paramedic.

Yeah, I was thinking about this after I posted..I thought, "what kind of pipe dream bullshit was that?" Heh.... You're right...most won't care in the least, and that breaks my heart. Some will though.

...Until other major changes occur most companies including many of the quality ones only ask that you have approval to work in the state you are applying in. So really that is a mute point.

Yeah, agreed. Though it causes me actual physical pain to say so...

As to prerequisites I do not know what they require but I do know many college level Paramedics do not require A&P, they just do the condensed version that is found in the Paramedic text.

Agreed again, but I do believe that this is different. It seems that an online program is going to come with so many built in weaknesses in practice, training, hands on interaction, that it would be even more vital to increase the educational standards to compensate. I have a really bad feeling about a school that would choose not to. I would have much more confidence in the site as well if they didn't hit all of the wanker hot buttons. Study at home! Less expensive! Fewer practice and clinical hours and you can do them all at once!! Etc... See? Had I seen something that led me to believe that they were intent on mitigating the inherent online deficits I would maybe have been able to get on board based on you and tcripps recommendation. But the fact that she's a nice woman really doesn't make up for the fact that, at least from what's available on their website, they don't compensate for the online learning.

Though I actually agree with you that it should be required but again until more places get on board hard to really say a school is bad if doesn't require it when not many do, and many that do have the it required allow the condensed Paramedic level A&P that will not transfer towards getting your RN.

Yeah....

If a person just wants to run L&S there are many faster and easier ways to get certified than taking an online course.

How? Even the 10 week courses are 6 days/wk I think...

...Wow Dwayne we agreed on multiple points in this discussion maybe there's hope for peace in the middle east after all.

I saw on my phone that you had posted and thought, "Ah shit...this is going to suck..."

But it didn't. I'm grateful for your insight and thoughts. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Dwayne

[spenac]

What do you base this statement on? I'm not aware of knowing any graduates of these programs and have never taken one...

Agreed. And I hope that I made it clear that I wasn't labeling this school as one. Only attempting to show the OP that if s/he wanted to be different in EMS that there was likely not going to be a convenient, shorter way to do so.

Again, I have no doubt, but the quality of those clinical programs varies greatly, perhaps more greatly than the quality of schools. I believe that in a program that teaches paramedic medicine online that the clinicals must be planned and focused on the limitations that are inherent in that. Simply giving a student an ambulance to ride on or an ER to attend to is not going to get it done in this instance I believe.

Yeah, I was thinking about this after I posted..I thought, "what kind of pipe dream bullshit was that?" Heh.... You're right...most won't care in the least, and that breaks my heart. Some will though.

Yeah, agreed. Though it causes me actual physical pain to say so...

Agreed again, but I do believe that this is different. It seems that an online program is going to come with so many built in weaknesses in practice, training, hands on interaction, that it would be even more vital to increase the educational standards to compensate. I have a really bad feeling about a school that would choose not to. I would have much more confidence in the site as well if they didn't hit all of the wanker hot buttons. Study at home! Less expensive! Fewer practice and clinical hours and you can do them all at once!! Etc... See? Had I seen something that led me to believe that they were intent on mitigating the inherent online deficits I would maybe have been able to get on board based on you and tcripps recommendation. But the fact that she's a nice woman really doesn't make up for the fact that, at least from what's available on their website, they don't compensate for the online learning.

Yeah....

How? Even the 10 week courses are 6 days/wk I think...

I saw on my phone that you had posted and thought, "Ah shit...this is going to suck..."

But it didn't. I'm grateful for your insight and thoughts. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Dwayne

Dwayne I think we both want the same thing for EMS which is to make it a profession that we can be truly proud of. But we both are stubborn, hardheaded, and opinionated. When done right those traits can be good but sometimes like in our case we both end up looking child like in our arguments at times. I apologize for my part in that.

As to what evidence just my experience in dealing with students from online programs. I know many people that I even work with that dropped online programs because they required more effort than the local standard classes. I have worked with people from both types of programs and honestly some from both were excellent and others needed more hand holding to get a firm grasp on things. So not scientific proof just life experience.

Oh and 10 week class is Mon, Wed, Fri unless they changed it. Scary isn't it.

Look forward to more productive discussions.