DwayneEMTP Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 My name is Jerry Dinsmore and I am the CEO here at PERCOM. We generally do not post on forums or messages boards, but this topics begs for a statement from us. We feel that dialouge of this nature is good, but we would like to clear up some misconceptions and misinformation about our program... Hey Jerry. My apologies for not responding. I'm not sure how I missed getting back to this thread. After your thorough and considered response I'll ask that you believe that there was no disrespect intended, but oversight only. ...Cheap is a relative term. Our pricing is structured to pay the expenses involved in educating the student with a minimal profit margin for the company. I would not call $4000+ cheap, however I would describe it as reasonable... I would tend to agree. ..Our website was designed to give an "Overview" of the program, not every detail of how we educate the student. This was done for 2 reasons. 1: We wanted to give enough information to the prospective student to peak their interest. We then want that prospective student to contact us so that we can discuss their unique situation (all students are different and unique). This allows us to help the student determine in our program is right for them. As I said earlier, online education is not for everyone and we want to ensure that student who enroll in PERCOM's programs understand fully how the program works and makes an informed decision before enrolling. 2: We did not want to let competing companies know how we do what we do. Business by nature is competitive and we are successful. We do not want the competition to know the in's and out's of our educational process and have them mimic it. We have had to deal with copyright infringement issues already and would rather not have to deal with issues of that nature again. Litigation, while successful on our part, takes away time from our main goal which is education... Both fair reasons of course. But from the outside looking in it makes it difficult to give more than the considered, though uninformed opinion that I gave, and was asked for. ...Dancing Monkeys and NREMT. Interesting. I have sooooo much I could say. Man, the NREMT CBT is disappointing to me on so many levels. ...I guess my question to you would be: What benchmark would you like us to use? How can we compare our graduates to graduates of other programs? If you can suggest a truly level benchmark that I can use to compare our graduates to I would be more than happy to run the numbers and see where we compare... Again, a fair question to which I'm afraid that I have no good answer. I guess I've gotten such a sour taste for programs that teach to the NR CBT that I lumped you into that category as it appeared, and I've not been completely disabused of the notion, that you can do little more in a program that's based online and has only 400 or so hrs of clinicals. (According to another poster.) ...We do have prerequisites listed on the website. We do not include A&P as one of them because we teach each student A&P before they are allowed to begin the Paramedic Curriculum. If a student can show proof of completing A&P at a college level then we waive that requirement... But when I nearly enrolled in AMR's paramedic course they made the same claim. Their A&P was one hour/wk over 5 weeks. That's not really an A&P course, that really just teaching some folks some fancy words in case patients overhear them talking. Again, of course I'm not stating that you do likewise, but without further information that is the assumption that I've made. If not so terribly poor, at least not college level thorough. But again, that is my assumption, I've not heard that from anyone. ...This is the quote that truly drove me to respond to this thread. DwayneEMTP can you please show me where our site makes any of these claims. Post the url's or screenshots of our site claiming "less expensive" "study at home" "Fewer practice ?and clinical hours". I don't feel we have done any of this and I feel your depiction here is quite unfair... I've taken another look at your site and I can't in any way defend myself against this question. I think that it's possible that I confused your site with another, or, again made a sweeping generalization based on comments such as this: "Get your EMT Basic Certification with just 10 days of live training." Can you truly say that that is a statement meant to attract those that are committed to a career in EMS? I don't believe that you can for the most part. Do I believe that you can turn out competent EMTs in 10 days of online training with some clinicals? I don't. I do apologize for my statements that you've quoted above. They were unfair and I can't defend them. I don't believe that at the time it was my intention to be unfair, but the result is that I've obviously been so regardless of my intentions. Sorry about that Brother. ...I welcome any comments, questions and constructive criticism you or anyone else may have. It's just a mixed bag for me. I sweat blood for 2 1/2 years and still didn't get the education that seem would be more appropriate for a paramedic. I'm certainly bigoted against the online courses, though you make it terribly hard for me to justify my bigotry. The bottom line for me, given some time and distance, is that Tony, and DEFIB (Who sometimes prefers his real name not be used here) are both more intelligent and more committed to the medical sciences than I am, have taken your courses, and both give them a gold star. That certainly speaks more loudly, and clearly than any bullshit opinion that I can develop based on a 15 minute perusal of your website or previous history with students from other programs. I hope that your program is all that you say it is. And if so I hope that it remains difficult and is massively successful. Thanks again, very much, for your response. While I don't apologize for my offered opinions, as they were developed and offered with honest and sincere intent in the context asked for, I certainly do apologize for the true misrepresentations. They were not fair, and I'd take them back if I could. Have a great day... Dwayne 1
jonwsu333 Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 No need to thank me. I'm guessing you know that I don't give them out unless you meet my self deluded bullshit standard for quality. Your posts, whether I agree or not, are always well considered and presented. I don't know anyone here that doesn't respect that. I agree to a point. I believe that if you were to become an accountant, then online is fine. A medical biller? Perhaps the same, though I know nothing of what they do, it just sounds like a logical, detail oriented job. Is there something that I think is so special about paramedic medicine that you should only be able to come up the way I did? Yeah, but I think it's the same thing that's special about carpentry, or plumbing, or auto mechanics, horse training. This job, for me, is sometimes as much about my eyes, ears, nose, and hands as it is my brain. (and thank God for that.) You mention you did your best with just you and your mannequin. Where did you get a mannequin to practice on? Is one given out as part of the learning materials? I didn't see it on the equipment list. And I'm not talking one of those hundred dollar little things some teach cpr on, as that would be useless to a medic student, but the base level, several thousand dollar model that would still meet just the minimum needs. Right? Most aren't going to have them. How long did it take you to get good at taking a rock solid blood pressure? Do you really believe that that is best learned, for the first time, under the pressure of clinicals? Did you REALLY learn to recognize pathologic breath sounds from the recordings we've all heard at one time or another online? Yeah, me...not so much. How much of your AAS class was spent sweating your balls/boobs off in front of the class while you tried to remember in what order to apply the KEDS straps? Or being in charge of your team during scenarios and wanting to die because you couldn't remember what fucking condition makes you febrile, gives you a headache and makes it painful to touch your chin to your chest!! Damn it!!! But you did learn, and partially, at least I believe that most of us did, sometimes in a pressure cooker. I look back at that stress now and think how ridiculous that was...But it wasn't then and it helped to teach me to deal with medicine and stress together in the future. Right, or no? How will that be recreated in the online environment? I was once surfing Mardi Gras boob pics and stumbled onto gay bondage porn. It was stressful, I will admit, but don't believe that it helped me in my EMS career. What do you do with miss introvert when it's time to step out into the real world? Or Mr 25 year old hero whacker that hasn't had to have his behavior judged until after he's completed his studies...hasn't had anyone to say, "You've gotten great grades, but you're behavior is going to make you the laughing stock of EMS." How will he be guided in that regard? It may seem like I'm splitting hairs but I truly, truly believe that these are all important things that happen when exposed to peer pressure over time...and I don't see that time in this program. Again agreed, but again you're only addressing didactics. And EMS is only didactic in small parts. Before I develop a working diagnosis I've examined skins, pt anxiety level, sound/rate/depth of breathing, how they move their arms and legs, the way they form their words, the quality of their pulse, the condition of their house and car...etc, etc, etc. And all of those things take practice and I studied them throughout my entire paramedic education. I don't see how one can gain those tools in the few weeks they'll have available during scheduled clinicals. Having the knowledge without the skills is like having a computer without a monitor I believe. And if there's a limit to how much you can slow it then I'm good with that. If you can go forever, then I'm not. Again, I believe that a certain level of stress needs to be built into EMS. So that we can handle the never ending tv like blood and guts we deal with on a daily basis? Heh...of course not. But so people can develop the tools for coping that so few seem to have today. We aren't tv heros, but we sometimes are put into some pretty shitty situations and expected to perform in a professional manner. We weren't born with that ability, it needs to be learned. And what about the granny call at the end of a 24? Don't you think that that is stressful? I do, over time. I'm not sure I completely agree. I would have been the worst hero bullshit whacker medic on the planet if I hadn't come to the City. Dust, ak, chbare, and many others here and gone convinced me that if I wanted to play in their sandbox, and I wanted to so badly that I could taste it, that I needed to be able to run with the big dogs. I followed their advice, and have never regretted it, though I'm still more qualified in the poodle or chihuahua category. I agree again, but for that to happen, we can't put all of that aside... Thanks for your thoughts girl.. Dwayne I don't know why tcripp, but I just saw your tag line and laughed so hard I about peed my pants. Even now, I have no idea what makes that so funny, but I'm powerless against it... :-) Cool as hell.. Dwayne Hello, In response to a few questions posted. Percom actually lists Anatomy as a prerequisite. They provide it as part of the package, and require you to complete it before starting the EMT work. Skills training is also a big part of the EMT course. Percom requires its students to attend training facilities for a Saturday and Sunday, on two separate occasions to practice skills. The student then must test their skills and pass in order to start their clinicals. I received my EMT-B training at an actual college and we did skills training once a week. We got in groups and drilled the different skills. Remembering where the EKG lines go or certain details don't have to be done in person. I can look at a diagram and remember it. Inserting an IV, splinting, stuff like that, I agree, needs to be practiced in person. I am not a paramedic as you are, so I do not have as much merit when discussing this, but I am just looking at the logistics. They do provide skills training at certified training facilities. Also, they work with facilities across Texas for clinicals. You are required to complete 168 hours of clinical time. This is split between EMS and Emergency Room. You intern with the exact same people you would if you attended a school. As far as online vs in classroom. The only thing you are getting online is the material. To me, this is more of a preferential situation (do you prefer to learn in the classroom with a teacher reading the material, or do you prefer to learn it on your own, at your own pace). This is not to say that there isn't a teacher available to you if you need help. I guess you need to ask the question, what exactly is the teacher providing for you. The only thing in question as far as I see it is.... can you absorb the material from the book and understand as well on your own versus in the classroom. I agree, online isn't for everybody, but I think you had a few questions about the credibility of this program and what it provides. They dont just give you material then say go practice. You have to drill skills, past skills tests, do clinical hours (the same amount as any paramedic program), then you can hit the field. Again, I am not saying you are wrong or that I don't value your opinion, I am just shedding some light on the program and how it works. Feel free to respond. P.S. I didnt read the whole forum, so I apologize if anyone answered these questions. 1
spenac Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Online does not equal alone. It requires more effort on the individual. When you have to read and research you have a better chance of retaining the material compared to just hearing it in a lecture. You still do face to face education with this program when you attend the skills days. If you stay up with modern education you will find you can complete pretty much any degree online.
Just Plain Ruff Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 I am living proof that anyone can get through a online degree program and do quite well. I spent 2 years in a hybrid class/online program. The program consisted of 15 classes. The first 8 classes I spent in the traditional model of classroom and then I began the online class format. I found that the online format was much more difficult (and expensive) than the in class format. I spent a lot more time online because I was having to post more online because that was how the instructor guaged how we learned the material apart from testing and weekly turn in assignments. Now I am embarking on a new phase of my career where I'm doing a self directed study along with a boot camp style (think condensed in class beat it in you in 4 days) class which will get me my certification as a project manager. This I am finding to be one of the major challenges that I have had to undertake in my life in a very very long time. So I think that the online format depends on how well you can self direct yourself. Online medic school does not make you less of a medic.
Eydawn Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 I'm actually trying to figure out if PERCOM will allow me to become a CO paramedic. I like the online learning environment and much prefer a hybrid course to a traditional "in class" course. I also feel more comfortable now with taking an online course or bridge than I did back before I started nursing school- I feel like I've gotten a lot of complementary education that would allow me to be more successful with this kind of approach (not academically, but as a practitioner). Yeah, I know. Finish nursing school first... Wendy CO EMT-B RN-ADN Student
DFIB Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 I'm actually trying to figure out if PERCOM will allow me to become a CO paramedic. I like the online learning environment and much prefer a hybrid course to a traditional "in class" course. I also feel more comfortable now with taking an online course or bridge than I did back before I started nursing school- I feel like I've gotten a lot of complementary education that would allow me to be more successful with this kind of approach (not academically, but as a practitioner). Yeah, I know. Finish nursing school first... Wendy CO EMT-B RN-ADN Student PM me if you need contact info. I may be able to help.
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