Ontario PCP's Have IV administration skills taken away

[OwleyMedic]

CANADA NEWS

** Though they may be trained to administer IVs, basic level paramedics in Ontario are now being prohibited from doing so. That is the word from CTV Ottawa (July 29) which said the dictate from the provincial Ministry of Health went into effect Wednesday at midnight. According to the news station, only advanced care practitioners can now perform the skill. Ottawa EMS Chief Anthony Di Monte said the decision will likely mean longer treatment times for patients, as considerably fewer medics can now tackle the task. Di Monte also said his organization is lobbying to reverse the ruling, but expects nothing will change. Prior to Wednesday, basic practitioners had been trained and permitted to administer IVs for about ten years.

Taken from PNN (http://www.paramedic-network-news.com/)

It amazes me that a province that touts it's self as being "progressive" in EMS would pull a stunt like this. I wonder what's behind it?

OM

[WolfmanHarris]

I just got home from a night shift, so I'll be brief and blunt.

Services are progressive.

Paramedics are progressive.

The education system is progressive.

Most of the Base Hospital Programs are progressive.

The Ministry of Health is not.

We need a College. And a real one, not like Alberta's. One where people show up and get involved and where the college listens.

[tniuqs]

What is the thought process going on here ?

Why is MOH now restricting this practice what is the rationale behind this retroactive move ?

Is there any EBM studies to substantiate "to start or not to start" an IV in the field on the BLS level ?

Thought 2 ... How can one treat a life threating Hypoglycemia or Hypovolemia ... when one is located in Ontario where there is NO ALS ?

If the "fall out" of this hits BC ... good lord 90% of that province will go back to grab and run

We need a College. And a real one, not like Alberta's.

One where people show up and get involved and where the college listens.

Disagree: The College is a regulatory body ONLY (and putting a cart before a horse)

One needs legislation (an EMS/Health Discipline type act) and with teeth to define the scope of practice and standardize care.

IMHO: ONT (as in AB and BC now) need an true professional association with good support to promote EMS and without union affiliation, as this polarizes public opinion.

my 2 cents

[Kiwiology]

In Australia the base level Officers (Ambulance Paramedic) and our Paramedic level Ambulance Officers can cannulate and infuse.

Silly Canada

[tniuqs]

In Australia the base level Officers (Ambulance Paramedic) and our Paramedic level Ambulance Officers can cannulate and infuse.

Silly Canada

Correction: Silly regressive MOH Ontario

[Kiwiology]

I know in AB and BC a PCP (EMT) can cannulate and infuse; I also know crazy ass Quebec and a few of the Terrorities have no ALS whatsoever and that in Ontario its three years to become an ACP (2 as a PCP and 1 for ACP) whereas say, Alberta its 1 and 2 respectively. Oh and lets not forget BC which is no longer training ACPs thanks to the BCAS Strike.

Dare I say Canada needs to standardise?

[tniuqs]

I know in AB and BC a PCP (EMT) can cannulate and infuse; I also know crazy ass Quebec and a few of the Terrorities have no ALS whatsoever and that in Ontario its three years to become an ACP (2 as a PCP and 1 for ACP) whereas say, Alberta its 1 and 2 respectively. Oh and lets not forget BC which is no longer training ACPs thanks to the BCAS Strike.

Dare I say Canada needs to standardise?

This from an island with flightless and funny looking birds,thats half the size of AB ?

te he.

Kiwi your observations are correct, overcoming the hurdle of standardization is most difficult as health care delivery is provincial jurisdiction. Now reciprocity (provincial) could become even be more complex when ONT has restricted scope of practice at the PCP/EMT level ... even though the PCP in ONT is far better educated.

Then the group nepotism of our College Council believing somehow that AB ACP are the leaders in a regulatory body .. hell they don't teach malaria, cholera, marine stings or snake bite treatment in the schools .. hey maybe the council needs a real ACP to lead the way <insert heavy sarcasm >

Here is another oddity .. RSI for ACP is pretty much a "given" in AB but in BC and ONT (best of my knowledge) RSI is limited to flight side ONLY .. that said with transition to the perfect government operated service (AB AHS) and limiting the medical directors to just a handful, I can see the guidelines become regressive as well, much to my personal disapproval.

I believe that the EBM studies generated of the USA are negatively affecting Canadian Standards and scope of practice .. damn that Wang et all !

As for the "spy talkers" ie Kabec. I don't believe the rest of Canada really cares what they do ... as they do everything ass backwards anyway and do not "listen well" in english.

At the end of this day, it is a sad day for the advancement of the Paramedic Profession in Kanukistan and moreover for the Canadian public that we serve.

I am hoping that someone from out east in ONT could explain the rationale behind this newest retarded move.

no joy

Edited July 31, 2010 by tniuqs

[northernmedic]

Check your facts. The strike is over and we have been training ACP's again for months. There are 2 licensing exams this summer and 12 people just got licensed with another 20 on the way here in the GVRD. Oh yeah, there was also the release of the 2 year EMS diploma and a longer ACP course with more post secondary pre requisites. My partner is precepting a student all month as we speak. I love all the "BC experts" on here who don't have a clue about anything first hand. Let me know if I can correct any more of your opinions for you.

[tniuqs]

Check your facts. The strike is over and we have been training ACP's again for months. There are 2 licensing exams this summer and 12 people just got licensed with another 20 on the way here in the GVRD. Oh yeah, there was also the release of the 2 year EMS diploma and a longer ACP course with more post secondary pre requisites. My partner is precepting a student all month as we speak. I love all the "BC experts" on here who don't have a clue about anything first hand. Let me know if I can correct any more of your opinions for you.

Firstly: Please take off the BCAS blinders as the CUPE rose coloured glasses it is are not becoming of you. Are you suggesting that kiwi does not have one iota of knowledge concerning the recent events in BC .. pfft. I believe that his "general statements" are most correct that the union busting environment in BC by Comrade Campbell is more than obvious AND that change is in the (very smoky)WIND ! Besides the Union action of putting a holding practicums is akin to shooting yourselves in the foot ! So would that be first hand enough for you ? btw some take great offence at critical, constructive observation from a short distance .

So: Perhaps you can give us the "skinny" on just how many successful jurisprudence exam writers at the PCP and ACP Level from other provinces and under the AIT agreement in the last year ? Welcome to "globalization" in passing and please add in the USA REMT-P that have been given BC licensing.

______ numbers svp ?

Comment: Its my bet your looking at at LEAST quadruple the number of grads that your presently producing.

So back on topic for fun shall we ?

The resultant fall out of reducing scope of practice in Ontario.

Just what is your opinion about this situation ? Do you think that the rather impressive and well educated PCP from ONT (but now rather dismayed and many unemployed or semi employed) will not seek "greener pastures" in an area where they are allowed to practice to their full scope, say for example BC ? I wonder how many grads are pumped out of ONT programs ...Oh yes dont forget and Holland College too.

Just how many CAF sponsored student are disillusioned ... just search and read their forum site to hear what they are saying.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=86579.30

Now with recent events in BC and those looking for viable alternatives in education (NOT TIED to Union actions) how many BC PCP have gone to "fast track" their education to ACP across the "pine beetle defended" AB/BC border ?

____ numbers svp?

Do dare open my yap in the BC super unionized environment to say that CUPE 873 president John Strohmeier has failed you miserably to the point of an EPIC FAIL ? Point being having field practicums and educational institutes and union married together is folly for any forward progressive development for Ambulance Service in BC. No, I guess I will not I would not like to be reprimanded from someone actually living and paying HST in BC, thats just living the dream I guess ?

I visited a very Northern Ambulance Station Ft. Nelson with travels to Nelson as well and just recently to find a deplorable "attitude" generally speaking and especially towards out of province practitioner's that are now licensed in BC. I guess its pretty scary thing looking down the barrel of private EMS operations on the door step and those that have superior medical abilities and are not limited by BC regulations/ legislation, I highly suspect that Campbell wishes to "revisit" the Emergency and Health Services Act and Emergency Medical Assistants Regulation as with the sweep of his magic wand (as in Bill 21) things WILL CHANGE.

Most Honestly the Part Time vs the Full Time inter departmental fighting is JUST what the government types are hoping for: Its called the divide and conquer technique of Union Busting ... for shame falling into that Leg hold trap.

That said: I sat with a Peter an ACP (Flight) out of PG at the Edmonton ESSO FBO (just yesterday) to find a completely different attitude, very positive, open and very professional. In fact attempting to recruit experienced flight side personnel as I was informed the whiny YVR types did not wish to relocate to PG and there has been openings for the last year ... hmmm interesting.

Well if I polish my crystal ball just a bit an attitude adjustment is coming the BC way IMHO.

cheers

Edited August 1, 2010 by tniuqs

[BEorP]

This CTV story is a bit misleading. At least for the time being, many Ontario PCPs (outside of Ottawa) are still doing IVs.