Add on topic of the mosque discussion

[HERBIE1]

The problem with this issue- the attacks on 9/11,as well as our reaction to it- are very real and visceral. Logic has no place in this equation. We were attacked by a group of people who thought killing innocent men, women and children was a way to get their 72 virgins and an eternal place next to Allah. Their stated goal is to either convert or kill us. They hate us, they hate everything we stand for, they hate our religion, they hate our way of life. How can you possibly discuss this and look at it rationally?

Patriotism, pride, anger, fear- these are subjective human emotions and feelings. We are being asked to embrace and accept a group associated with a horrible attack on our own soil. Most of us- especially those in this business- lost friends, coworkers, and brothers/sisters in a senseless and brutal attack. Few believe that all Muslims- or even most- agree with jihadists, but Muslims want to erect a symbol of a religion that represents these jihadists. That's a tough pill to swallow for many- myself included. It's not about Islamophobia (leave it to liberals to create a new buzzword), xenophobia, racism, or any other phobia.

In my opinion, since those attacks, most moderate Muslims seemed more concerned with explaining why these people felt compelled to carry out their attacks vs vilifying them. Accurate or not, that is the prism I view this situation through.

[Lone Star]

I know that by the tennets of my faith, I'm supposed to 'turn the other cheek' and forgive those who tresspass against me, so that I may be forgiven of my transgressions.

I have a hard time bringing myself to that point... maybe in time, I can; but not at the moment.

I'm intelligent enough to know that not all muslims are guilty of the actions of the few, and I personally could care less if you want to worship a cat, a cow or a tree, it's your faith; and if it brings you happiness and peace, then it's all on you for that.

While this 'cultural center' will not directly impact my day to day life, I've expressed my thoughts and feelings on the other thread. I wish that I could be more 'understanding' about the whole concept....

[Just Plain Ruff]

I have forgiven them. Do I like the fact that what they did required my forgiveness according to my faith, not really but I do forgive them. Do I hate them for what they did, sure but You can forgive the action while hating the action too.

What I don't understand is this, yes we have to have a common enemy but seriously, not all muslims did this. Why are we lumping all muslims together just because of the actions of a few of more than a few?

I know several muslims and they do not believe the way that these 15 did. They abhor what they did. they also abhor what has been the end result which is the vilification of an entire religion.

Timothy McVeigh was a christian. He took down the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma. I don't vilify all christians based on McVeigh's skewed values and thought processes.

ON the same hand, I don't vilify all muslims.

Love the sinner not the sin.

Does this mosque or cultural center directly impact my life? Nope not at all. What directly impacts my life is a very very small corner of the world which includes my job, my family, my church, my friends and my locality. Might it be different if I lived in NYC? Probably. But I dont' think it would.

Should there be a furor over this? no I don't believe that either. But... I do see why everyone is so pissed off but I think that those opposing this mosque and those that support it have their blinders on. Those who support it refuse to consider other less sensitive sites. Those who oppose it refuse to allow it being built. Some even oppose it being built anywhere in NYC.

I don't see why Obama just doesn't have a beer summit between the leader of the support and the leader of the opposition. I'm sure that the furor will subside just like the race issue subsided after the First Beer Summit.

[CBEMT]

Timothy McVeigh was a christian. He took down the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma. I don't vilify all christians based on McVeigh's skewed values and thought processes.

Religion had ZERO to do with McVeigh's actions. It had EVERYTHING to do with 9/11. The comparision is absurd.

Edited August 26, 2010 by CBEMT

[Just Plain Ruff]

Religion had ZERO to do with McVeigh's actions. It had EVERYTHING to do with 9/11. The comparision is absurd.

You misinterpreted my comment, be that your misinterpretation or my inability to fully express what I was trying to say, one will never know,,,, but.

I was not saying and never have said that McVeigh blew up the fed building for christian reasons.

I was simply saying that I don't vilify all christians becuase of what McVeigh did nor do I vilify all muslims for what the 15 did.

I can see where you might have gotten that idea but that was never my intended take on the issue.

[JPINFV]

Religion had ZERO to do with McVeigh's actions. It had EVERYTHING to do with 9/11. The comparision is absurd.

This is why I think Fred Phelps is a good example. After all, all Christians are just itching to protest military funerals because of homosexuals, right? Fred Phelps has as much to do with the average Christian in the US as the 9/11 terrorists have to do with the average Muslim in the US.

[HERBIE1]

This is why I think Fred Phelps is a good example. After all, all Christians are just itching to protest military funerals because of homosexuals, right? Fred Phelps has as much to do with the average Christian in the US as the 9/11 terrorists have to do with the average Muslim in the US.

OK- I'll use Fred Phelps as an example. The left is so concerned with harming Phelp's right to free speech, but solutions I heard would address that. Limit WHERE and WHEN he can spew his venom- as in a couple blocks away, or 2 hrs before or after the ceremony.

SO- with regards to the mosque- let the mosque be built- ON ANOTHER SITE.

Problem solved.

[Just Plain Ruff]

OK- I'll use Fred Phelps as an example. The left is so concerned with harming Phelp's right to free speech, but solutions I heard would address that. Limit WHERE and WHEN he can spew his venom- as in a couple blocks away, or 2 hrs before or after the ceremony.

SO- with regards to the mosque- let the mosque be built- ON ANOTHER SITE.

Problem solved.

Well Herbie, Missouri tried to do just what you said to limit Phelps and the Missouri Supreme Court ruled that law violated his 1st Amendment rights. So the solution you suggested - Tried and failed by the State of Missouri.

[CBEMT]

This is why I think Fred Phelps is a good example.

When Fred Phelps kills himself and 3,000 other people because of his religion, he'll be a good example.

[Richard B the EMT]

So it's human nature.

After Pearl Harbor, "everyone" hated orientals. Automatically, they were all seen as Japanese. Persons of Japanese heritage were hauled off to Internment camps. The radio version of the "Green Hornet" changed Kato's place of origin, from Japanese, then to Philippines, then just "Oriental".

My girlfriend is 3rd generation American born, of Sicilian/Italian heritage. In the Bahamas, a couple from Hamburg, Germany, on hearing this, called her Mafia! (Surprisingly, I reacted worse to this than she did). I almost called the couple Nazi!