Who am I and Why am I doing This?!

[riverbender]

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry to clog up your forum with my stuff. This may be little more than a bit of PTSD. I haven't been sleeping right for the past few days. I spent last night reading here for about 4 hours. I laughed and I cried.

Here's the deal, I am CPR certified as a requirement for my personal trainer certification. I've been to that class 3x so far. While at the gym a few days ago, a seemingly healthy 27 year old had what looked to my HouseMD medical training, a seizure, on the floor in front of me. I pretty much froze. The only thing I could think was think, "&*!@ in 3 minutes he'll be dead. MOVE MOVE MOVE! You are supposed to help him you idiot. MOVE!!!!"

I was able to gather myself enough to do the head tilt - though I failed to actually look past his tongue. I felt for breathing. With my hand? ugh. I thought I felt warm air coming out of his mouth. Cool he's not gonna die!!

His girlfriend was screaming his name. I watched her slap his face a couple of times (while his eyes are rolled back in his head ugh), brush his wrist to check for pulse (ugh again) and then she sorta kinda started doing compressions. Like maybe infant CPR compressions?? Two of them. Then she stopped. My brain knew that was not what they taught me in CPR class (maybe just a month ago!). My mouth said, "Do you know CPR?" She said, "Yes".

So, I was relieved that I was not going to have to kill him. I let her do it instead. I yelled at the gym manager to get the AED. Then I got up. Hey, he was breathing. Let her kill him. I don't wanna do it damnit!!! Helpful aren't I?

Really though, there are 3 hospitals within a 3 mile radius of the gym. This area seems to be over saturated with healthcare. Every time a new building goes up it's medical related. I've seen med & nursing students in the gym reading on the treadmill and even reading on weight benches when I need to use one!!! (I'm not exaggerating. I have pictures LOL). I know that the manager is CPR certified and was doing even less than I was at the moment. LOL I was kinda pissed. Now I get it.

The whole time, my overwhelming feeling was, this guy is gonna die soon but there's gotta be someone in here better qualified to help him than idiot me!!! I couldn't think past "is he breathing?" And then I felt air. AND he was definitely seizing - or doing something that looked like a seizure anyway. So honestly I was relieved to just let him seize. What else could I do? I dunno? They don't even mention the seizure thing in CPR class I expected to see a lifeless body. NOT!

However, not more than a minute after I felt the warm air, he started to turn blue and that's when I had a choice - either go into bitch mode (I do it very well), start screaming at people (including poor girlfriend) to STFU and stop hovering (there hadda be 10 people standing over him at that point) and take control with my non-existent skills and kill the guy myself. Thankfully at that moment I heard a man yell, "is he breathing?" He jumped on the guy and told the girlfriend to do two breaths. I had to walk away after that. I was about ready to go down myself.

Here's my issue....

That guy is still on a ventilator. I've heard through the grapevine the words arrhythmia & heart attack.

I am two weeks from opening a personal training studio where I will be alone with my clients. I've already signed the lease. I have clients who are morbidly obese with high BP. I do not have, nor can I afford an AED. (!!!)) I have a client with mild asthma. I can NOT be in this situation again. I can not have someone almost die right in front of me and freeze up like that. I won't survive it LOL. Not funny really. I'm serious.

I think I could have helped that guy had I had some confidence or experience. So, I was thinking that the only way to get that experience in these situations which that stupid CPR class does not prepare you for (!!!), is to actually have to DO it. Which sucks if you think about it

So, I google EMT training.

I'd really like to know if I am just over reacting? Or would doing volunteer work help me learn how to deal with the stress of the situation. 8 million things were going through my head. Probably 99.99% wrong or irrelevant. I still can't help but wonder if things might have turned out differently had I been able to act. I don't want to feel like this again. Are my reasons/motivations for wanting to do this selfish??? I feel like they might be. That can't be a good thing. Then again, it would be a good thing if someone doesn't have to die at 27 because I froze.

Or maybe do you folks have a better idea as to how I can prepare myself for that emotional stress? I dunno. I felt like I just was not any way shape or form prepared for what happened!!!

[HERBIE1]

With no medical training other than a CPR certification, it is not unusual for someone to freeze up when presented with such a situation, so don't beat yourself up over it. The problem is, if part of your certification is CPR training, then you need to be able to do at least that. Think of it this way- the person is already dead, so you will not harm them. Seizures occur for lots of reasons- someone has a seizure disorder, and it seems in your case, due to heart problems(basically a lack of oxygen because the heart is not working correctly).

Now for future reference-

First, while someone is seizing, without advanced medical training and medications, there is nothing you can do to stop it. It will seem like an eternity, but most people stop on their own in a couple minutes. Check their wrists and necks- they may have a medic alert ID that explains any underlying medical problems they have. Protect them from harming themselves(pad their head, move them away from anything that can hurt them, and NEVER stick anything in their mouth while they are convulsing). They will not swallow their tongue- it's a fallacy, but they may bite it, or their cheek. Not generally a major issue at the time. Additionally, while a full blown, grand mal seizure is happening, the person is NOT breathing. Give them oxygen if you have it. They will begin breathing, they may remain unconscious, or they may wake up confused, combative, and have no recollection of what happened to them. If they do NOT wake up, then it's not a simple seizure, as it appears in your situation. You go through the CPR steps you were taught- Airway, breathing, circulation.

You say there are nearby hospitals in your area, but what about the EMS system? How quickly would trained personnel respond? I would reconsider the idea of an AED if you open your own place if you can at all afford it. Some locations even require them for certain businesses and public places, so I would verify that is not the case for you. They are VERY EASY to operate, and even have step by step directions on them. Again- if the person is NOT dead, the AED will do nothing. If they are not breathing and have no pulse, then it can save their life.

Take a refresher course in CPR- like any skill, if you do not lose it, you lose it. Lay people who learn it often never need to use that knowledge, but as a personal trainer, there is a greater risk something like this can happen on your watch. I would also make it a job requirement for all employees to be CPR certified, as well as trained on an AED.

EMT training is fine, but I would take it one step at a time. Relearn the CPR so you become more confident. See if you can procure an AED.

Good luck.

[Richard B the EMT]

I actually know a few people who became EMTs, because they felt the need for the training to be a kind of medical standby for school sports teams they were associated with. They never served a day on an ambulance.

I also probably phrased that badly.

[DCP Whit]

I was going to say safey pin the tongue through the top lip....

[mobey]

I was going to say safey pin the tongue through the top lip....

What are you talking about?

[DCP Whit]

Old school protocal for seizures. One of my practorers was speaking of it.

[mobey]

Old school protocal for seizures. One of my practorers was speaking of it.

Bullshit

Use your common sence, I really do hope your joking.

Patient abuse is not funny, and not welcome in our profession.

Please remember the OP is not an EMS provider, and started this thread to reach out to prehospital PROFESSIONALS for comfort and information. This is not the "Funny" area of EMTCity.

OP: As was mentioned... NEVER put anything in/near the mouth of a seizuring patient.

[mfprincess]

Clearly dear you are not mentally equiped to handle emergencies. Seemingly heathy 27 year olds can have lethal arrhythmias. Arrythimias can look like seizure activity, that is why a AED should have been placed on the poor man who lay there dying without much needed oxygen. The best thing you could have done was called 9-1-1 and yelled at the top of your lungs "does anyone know cpr". The 9-1-1 operator can also give you CPR instruction over the phone, I did'nt see you mention that someone called.

If you are going to open up your own personal training facility might I suggest buying a wall poster with the instructions and pictures written out that you may post on a wall. You can purchase that from the American Heart Association. Having obese patients and those with high blood pressure is very risky without having equipment at your dispossal ie: blood pressure cuff, pulse oxymetry. These people are in a very high risk category and you are asking for trouble. I'm sorry if I sound cold and unsympathetic but you providing CPR may be the difference between life and death. Clearly you see this or you would'nt be losing sleep over the 27 year old who is still intubated and may have suffered permanant brain damage from his lack of oxygen. Good luck with your studio and please consider sitting it on a CPR course to refresh or relearn these important skills. just know that it only takes 6 minutes for the brain to begin dying without oxygen and the ambulance may take longer than that.

[HERBIE1]

Clearly dear you are not mentally equiped to handle emergencies. Seemingly heathy 27 year olds can have lethal arrhythmias. Arrythimias can look like seizure activity, that is why a AED should have been placed on the poor man who lay there dying without much needed oxygen. The best thing you could have done was called 9-1-1 and yelled at the top of your lungs "does anyone know cpr". The 9-1-1 operator can also give you CPR instruction over the phone, I did'nt see you mention that someone called.

If you are going to open up your own personal training facility might I suggest buying a wall poster with the instructions and pictures written out that you may post on a wall. You can purchase that from the American Heart Association. Having obese patients and those with high blood pressure is very risky without having equipment at your dispossal ie: blood pressure cuff, pulse oxymetry. These people are in a very high risk category and you are asking for trouble. I'm sorry if I sound cold and unsympathetic but you providing CPR may be the difference between life and death. Clearly you see this or you would'nt be losing sleep over the 27 year old who is still intubated and may have suffered permanant brain damage from his lack of oxygen. Good luck with your studio and please consider sitting it on a CPR course to refresh or relearn these important skills. just know that it only takes 6 minutes for the brain to begin dying without oxygen and the ambulance may take longer than that.

Aren't you being a bit harsh on the OP? This is a LAY PERSON who took a CPR course, not someone who is a trained medical professional. Lots of people take the class and as we all know, some instructors are better than others. Many people freeze up when presented with an unconscious person- even if they had a proper CPR course. Clearly she's upset about what happened and the last thing she needs is a brow beating over it. if you are talking about dealing with people at risk, well, in any work place folks are obese, smokers, asthmatics, and gawd knows what else.. Does that mean every person in a work environment should be an EMT or paramedic in case a coworker should collapse?

Do you recall your first cardiac arrest? Were you calm, cool, and collected? Did you feel 100% comfortable? No anxiety? I know I was a nervous wreck, and I was trained.

Now think of someone who's job is to help people become physically fit- not be responsible for providing them medical care and suddenly they are presented with something like this. As a trainer- especially with my own gym, if I were dealing with folks who may in less than optimal health, I think it would be good to get a physician's release, saying this person is able to tolerate physical exertion. That said, however, the victim was 27 years old- not a likely candidate for something like this to happen. Possible- always.

Like I said to the OP, she should take a refresher CPR class, obtain an AED, and be prepared in case it happens again.

Not fair at all, in my opinion.

Edit:

You can tell me to pound sand if you wish, but I think you owe the OP an apology.

Old school protocal for seizures. One of my practorers was speaking of it.

Old school my arse. I've been doing this for 30 years and never heard of such a thing.

I also call BS.

Edited September 22, 2010 by HERBIE1

[mobey]

Arrythimias can look like seizure activity,

OMG... Wannabe Paramedic quote of the year!!

OKOK... If you visualize what a seizure would look like on paper, it could look like v-fib LOL

Get a grip... your talking about a lay-person who froze during a seizure/cardiac arrest when others were providing care. Big deal...