emtannie Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 Wow… what a complete lack of respect. Article in today's Toronto Sun: http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/11/11/16088711.html Remembrance Day is observed on November 11 to recall the official end of World War I on that date in 1918, as the major hostilities of World War I were formally ended "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month" of 1918 with the German signing of the Armistice. It is meant to remember soldiers of all wars, and the sacrifices they made. Those that do not like the ceremony should have the respect to not attend, and perhaps they should return to their own countries on that day, to be reminded how lucky they are to be able to be in that country that celebrates Remembrance Day. I know I am preaching to the choir on this one, but this makes me so angry….
JPINFV Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 Those that do not like the ceremony should have the respect to not attend, and perhaps they should return to their own countries on that day, to be reminded how lucky they are to be able to be in that country that celebrates Remembrance Day. Why are you making the assumption that all of the people involved with the protest aren't Canadian citizens? If any of them are Canadian citizens, be it by birth, blood, or naturalization, aren't they already in their own country?
emtannie Posted November 12, 2010 Author Posted November 12, 2010 Why are you making the assumption that all of the people involved with the protest aren't Canadian citizens? If any of them are Canadian citizens, be it by birth, blood, or naturalization, aren't they already in their own country? JPINFV, very good point, and you are right - I did make that incorrect assumption. At what point does one's right to protest outweigh someone else's right to ceremony? I do believe there is a time and a place for protest, but I don't think this was the time or the place. The incident was in London, England, not in Canada. I should have posted the entire article as well, so here it is (and just so the lawyers who watch for people who don't cite their sources, again, it is from the Toronto Sun http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/11/11/16088711.html A large model of a poppy was burned in protest of the war in Afghanistan and several demonstrators chanted during two minutes of silence in London during Thursday morning Armistice Day ceremonies. A group that calls itself Muslims Against Crusades chanted, "British soldiers burn in hell," and held signs saying, "Islam will dominate" and, "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell." The Remembrance Day protest, near Hyde Park, involved 50 members of the group, the Daily Mail newspaper reported. Another 50 counter-demonstrators were also there. The two groups were separated by police. "We are demonstrating because this day is a day of remembrance to remember every single fallen soldier, including those killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. We find it disgusting that innocent people, innocent children, have been killed in an illegal and unjust war and we are demonstrating against that," Asad Ullah of Muslims Against Crusades said, several media outlets reported. "We want the government to pull the troops out from these countries and to stop interfering in our affairs." On its website, which features photos of children injured or dead, the group called the protest "an emergency demonstration" to "break the silence." In a video message, group member Abu Ubaidah said British soldiers, along with U.S. troops, are involved in assaulting, raping and murdering Muslims. "The general British public, they show their support of the murdering of Muslims, by wearing the poppy," he said. "The two minute silence for the soldiers is a condemnable event and the wearing of the poppy is symbolic of the war against Islam and Muslims, which needs to be condemned. And we will not be silent." Police told the Daily Mail three men were arrested - two for public order offences and one for assaulting an officer.
rock_shoes Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 I couldn’t help but have the following quote spring to mind when I saw this thread: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it I’m 100% with you Annie in viewing these actions as one of the most dishonourable showings of disrespect I’ve ever heard of. Frankly, if you are unwilling put aside your political agenda for one day to show respect for serving Canadian men and women both past and present, you can get the hell out of my country. I don’t care about race, religion, or social background but when it comes to disrespecting those who serve my tolerance level is pretty damn low.
JPINFV Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 I’m 100% with you Annie in viewing these actions as one of the most dishonourable showings of disrespect I’ve ever heard of. Frankly, if you are unwilling put aside your political agenda for one day to show respect for serving Canadian men and women both past and present, you can get the hell out of my country. I don’t care about race, religion, or social background but when it comes to disrespecting those who serve my tolerance level is pretty damn low. So you're the sole arbitrator of who should and shouldn't be in your (which can just as easily be their) country? Wouldn't a Canadian who is a member of Muslims Against Crusades have just as much right to tell you to get out of his or her country? Don't get me wrong, I think these sort of things are despicable, but I'm not calling for the exile of or the stripping of citizenship from, using a US example, Fred Phelps.
Happiness Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 I come from a very long line of military people, as a matter of fact my Mother just recieved an award of Excellence of Commissionars Yesterday at our local Legion. My mother and father both have made sure that I have the understanding of what Rememberance day is for and I have in Turn made sure my children have an understanding of this day. For any person, or group to burn a Poppy on this date is down right deplorable and disgusting. It should not be tolerated at all, ever. I personally think that those that participated in that protest should be shot. Tried to think of a better word but nope SHOT is the only one that comes to mind. I think we have as a society become so compliant and Politically Correct in area's that shouldn't be. For Example When you immigrate to my country I expect you to adhear to my customs. I dont care if you bring your own but dont try to change mine. This is about East Indian RCMP Officers changing the uniform in order to wear a Turbin. I dont care if you wear a turbin and I dont care why you wear one but if you want to be a RCMP officer you will wear our Headress. If I immigrated to a country that required me to keep my face hidden your dam rights I would do it. It is called respecting one's customs. I try to look at bothsides but in this case I dont want to know the other side all I see is a group of people disrespecting a countries custom and in this case it is a Day of Remberance for all the people who have given up their life and greatly disrupted the lives of the families left behind. Yep I think thats enough said from me
JPINFV Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 (edited) When you immigrate to my country I expect you to adhear to my customs. I dont care if you bring your own but dont try to change mine. This is about East Indian RCMP Officers changing the uniform in order to wear a Turbin. I dont care if you wear a turbin and I dont care why you wear one but if you want to be a RCMP officer you will wear our Headress. If I immigrated to a country that required me to keep my face hidden your dam rights I would do it. It is called respecting one's customs. How do you know that he's an immigrant? Since some religions (namely Sikhs) wear turbans, wouldn't the appropriate response be to ban all religious wear? Also, how adherent are you to First Nation customs? After all, if you want to play the immigrant card, aren't you an immigrant to their land? Edited November 12, 2010 by JPINFV
emtannie Posted November 12, 2010 Author Posted November 12, 2010 It goes back to where my rights end and another's start... I have lots of rights, but when my rights trample on someone else's, my rights should end. In this situation, Muslim religion and customs are not a part of historical England, but losing men and women in WWI, WWI, and other wars has been a large part of England's history. For Muslims not to respect that, and to interfere with that, is just as despicable as me interfering with a First Nations ceremony here. There should also be consequences to actions. The Muslim community should have the right of free speech, but that right ends when it interferes with a Remembrance Day ceremony. There are other avenues for protest. This was not a protest to encourage people seeing another point of view - this was a protest solely to be disruptive. Regardless of if it was Muslims, KKK, or the National Association of Bicycle Clowns disrupting this ceremony, it is offensive, and at minimum they should be charged with disrupting the peace. I am willing to site down and listen to someone's point of view if they are willing to present it with the purpose of discussion and dialogue; however, just as they have the right to present their opinion how they want, I have the right to ignore their views and put up barriers to their views if they are presenting it with the intent of being aggressive and disruptive.
Happiness Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 How do you know that he's an immigrant? Since some religions (namely Sikhs) wear turbans, wouldn't the appropriate response be to ban all religious wear? Also, how adherent are you to First Nation customs? After all, if you want to play the immigrant card, aren't you an immigrant to their land? I used the example of the RCMP headress for a reason and it doesnt look like ya got it. How adherent am I to the First Nation customs am I (this is not a kettle of worms that you really want to start). I am very adherent to them and I have a great knowledge of the customs where I live. If you look at one of my posts that show my son's Haida Graduation I have pictures of the ceremony. The blanket that he was presented was made by me. Now this is not the normal custom the white mother making the blanket it is suppose to be the auntie. My son does not have Aunties to this so I asked permission of my husbands chief to make it(this is called respect)(and that was the real point of my post). I have also been given permission to learn how to weave cedar bark hats, (not many have been given this as it is a highley protected skill), I have knowledge of traditional medicines that my husband and I made when his mother had cancer. I have lived here for 25 years and some will say that I know more about the Haida way than my Husband. And so you know, I work the Council of the Haida Nation and have the culture in my life everyday. I can even speak and understand parts of the language. If I ever have a question about the culture I have many chiefs ect that would be happy to answer my questions. Not to sound crasssssss but there is my immigration card. So if your have any interest in this culture please feel free to ask as I will gladly answer your question if I dont know the answer I will find someone who does.
JPINFV Posted November 13, 2010 Posted November 13, 2010 I used the example of the RCMP headress for a reason and it doesnt look like ya got it. Really? What is it then, because what I got was, "Turbans are foreign, therefore shouldn't be allowed, even if the person is a natural born Canadian Citizen." Would you have a problem with a Jew wearing a yarmulke or a Christian wearing a crucifix? All are parts of religious dress (albeit the crucifix is the least strong as nothing I know of in Christianity, and definitely Catholicism, compels wearing one, unlike the Sikhs and Jews with the turban and yarmulke respectively), so either all should be allowed or none allowed provided it doesn't interfere with job performance. How adherent am I to the First Nation customs am I (this is not a kettle of worms that you really want to start). I am very adherent to them and I have a great knowledge of the customs where I live. If you look at one of my posts that show my son's Haida Graduation I have pictures of the ceremony. The blanket that he was presented was made by me. Now this is not the normal custom the white mother making the blanket it is suppose to be the auntie. My son does not have Aunties to this so I asked permission of my husbands chief to make it(this is called respect)(and that was the real point of my post). I have also been given permission to learn how to weave cedar bark hats, (not many have been given this as it is a highley protected skill), I have knowledge of traditional medicines that my husband and I made when his mother had cancer. I have lived here for 25 years and some will say that I know more about the Haida way than my Husband. And so you know, I work the Council of the Haida Nation and have the culture in my life everyday. I can even speak and understand parts of the language. If I ever have a question about the culture I have many chiefs ect that would be happy to answer my questions. Not to sound crasssssss but there is my immigration card. So if your have any interest in this culture please feel free to ask as I will gladly answer your question if I dont know the answer I will find someone who does. So how do you feel when the other European immigrants (regardless of if they were born in Canada or not or when their family immigrated) who don't pay heed to First Nations culture?
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