Should EMS be involved in capital punishment?

[Lone Star]

Ok, let's all take a step back and take in a few deep breaths....

This isn't a thread of whether or not capital punishment is justified, or whether it's right or wrong.

In order to have a healthy discussion on this touchy topic, we need to be able to separate our personal feelings from the question at hand.

We can all agree that there are some pretty evil bastards on death row. They have been convicted of some pretty heinous crimes. Again, this isn’t the issue at hand.

We talk about ‘patient advocacy’, morals and ethics; but are we ALWAYS following them?

We have taken an oath to preserve life wherever and whenever possible. Yes, capital punishment flies directly in the face of that. But in the situation where the outcome is inevitable, then certain moral and ethical guidelines must still be adhered to.

Regardless of what the condemned has done, they still deserve to be treated as we would treat any other human being. We cannot let the alleged crime dictate what level of care they receive based on the crime they have allegedly committed. We are not the judge, jury or executioner.

Even though they have been convicted of a crime and sentenced to death, then it could be argued that they STILL deserve to have medical protocols adhered to while initiating venous access. This IS a medical procedure, and the inmate DESERVES to have it performed by trained medical personnel, like it or not.

The AMA and NAEMT and other organizations that have established the ethical guidelines we adhere to has taken a stand by saying that participation in the execution process violates the ethical guidelines they have established.

How many are willing to withhold treatments on patients that have been driving drunk and just killed a family of four that were returning from Grandma’s house? Or just shot a cop? Or was accused of raping some woman? How many find satisfaction in slamming home an I/O, just because the patient appears to be drunk and violent?

We talk about morals and ethics, yet we’re more than comfortable of making that ‘no good son of a bitch’ suffer for what they’ve done!

This is pretty much my view exactly. After all, I would hate for the inmate to get a cellulitis from a crappy IV stick, or suffer undue pain from a misplaced catheter and delayed action of the medications/lethal injection.

This isn’t your decision to make. The condemned is still a human being and still deserves to be treated as such. Prolonging what may be a painful death for nothing more than your own sadistic glee is considered ‘cruel and unusual punishment’ and is prohibited by the United States constitution.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Why does a doctor have to be present at the execution?

Just to sign the death cert? I dont' buy it.

A doctor doesn't need to be present.

Why can't they train the prison guards to start IV's and set up the equipment and push the button.

I can teach my 8 year old to start an IV, so I'm sure that they can teach a prison guard how to start an IV also.

I can also teach my 8 year old how to hook up the iv tubing, how to draw up 100ml of each drug and then also to push the button to start the execution.

Teach prison guards to do the job. They teach them how to attach the electric wires to the condemned don't they and they teach the guards how to push the button and all that right, teaching them how to run 100K volts of electricity through the body doesn't require a medical degree right?

I think this discussion is a moot point.

We talk about ‘patient advocacy’, morals and ethics; but are we ALWAYS following them?

Are these deathrow inmates really patients anyway?

[Lone Star]

We talk about ‘patient advocacy’, morals and ethics; but are we ALWAYS following them?

Are these deathrow inmates really patients anyway?

Would you have any medical procedure done by someone not affiliated with the medical community? I know I wouldn't!

Even though the person is on death row, doesn't mean that he's forfeited his right to have medical procedures performed by medical personnel.

I doubt anyone would allow their car mechanic to replumb their house or rewire it. We would call in a person specifically licensed to perform that type of service. The same applies here.

Whether or not you can teach your child to start an IV isn't the issue. You wouldn't let them start an IV on anyone, mainly because they're not licensed for that task.

As far as the guards 'throwing the switch', I don't think it works that way. Usually (at least as far as I know), the state hires an Executioner to speciffically perform that task...

[Richard B the EMT]

Even though the person is on death row, doesn't mean that he's forfeited his right to have medical procedures performed by medical personnel.

About that...It is my understanding that "the State" will not be denied it's "pound of flesh". Supposedly, a death row prisioner tried to hang himself, but was cut down in time by the Corrections Officers, revived...and put to in the electric chair somed 18 hours later, on schedule.

[Richard B the EMT]

Oops, double posting, removed by self.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Richard B the EMT

[Just Plain Ruff]

Would you have any medical procedure done by someone not affiliated with the medical community? I know I wouldn't!

Even though the person is on death row, doesn't mean that he's forfeited his right to have medical procedures performed by medical personnel.

I doubt anyone would allow their car mechanic to replumb their house or rewire it. We would call in a person specifically licensed to perform that type of service. The same applies here.

Whether or not you can teach your child to start an IV isn't the issue. You wouldn't let them start an IV on anyone, mainly because they're not licensed for that task.

As far as the guards 'throwing the switch', I don't think it works that way. Usually (at least as far as I know), the state hires an Executioner to speciffically perform that task...

Seriously, I disagree.

Why not send the guards to learn the skill. I mean we are talking about a simple procedure. If we can have EMT's advocate for intubation and giving medication's after a 120 hour class it certainly seems logical that they can teach a guard to start an IV.

Of course I wouldn't let my kid start an IV on anyone but I wiould let him start one on me if I showed him how.

But I digress. I truly don't have a problem with EMT's and medics starting the IV's on the inmates who are going to die in the next couple of minutes. I just don't see the issue here guys.

You advocate that they need someone medically trained to start the IV yet people complain that medical personnel should not be part of the team doing the execution. Or did I mis-read the sentiment of the group.

Again, it can be broken down to training. Why can't you train a guard to start the IV?

and yes you are right on the switch thingie but I don't see why this is such a big deal. Train the person to start the IV, make sure they are competent in doing so and let em at it.

I don't see the issue here.