Just Plain Ruff Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Ok not being very knowledgeable about this book you talk about but wasn't Jesus of Nazareth a Jewish Guy ? So today if Jesus was the Governors neighbour he could not be his brother ? You have to love fundamentalist evangelicals. It mentions about this guy Jesus in the Koran too, he sure get's a lot of free P. R. with the loaves of bread and wine thing, it was show stopper in the book I read. The part about him the son of married virgin mother is a bit far fetched, although I had a girl in labour tell me the same thing once, then she was high on drugs. cheers update ... 35 minutes ago http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/19/alabama-governor-apologizes-controversial-mlk-speech/ I'm not going to get into a religious argument on this thread but let's please keep from disparaging Jesus here. I know that the atheists and agnostics seem to outnumber the believers here but this thread was not started to be a Jesus bashing. I hope I mis-read your post.
paramedicmike Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I think you're misreading it, Ruff. I took Squint to mean that, based on the Governor's comments indicating that only those who've accepted Jesus would be considered his brothers and sisters, he (the Governor) could not consider Jesus himself a brother as Jesus was Jewish and not an evangelical Christian. It doesn't seem to me that there's any Jesus bashing in what Squint posted. Moronic evangelical bashing? Sure. Jesus bashing? No.
Just Plain Ruff Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I'm glad I misread it. Squint please know there was just a question in my mind, no offense to you intended. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
HERBIE1 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 This whole religion and government thing is a slippery slope. For some time now, religion was an ugly thing when mentioned in the political arena, yet we are constantly bombarded with such references. Nearly every POTUS says at the end of many speeches- "God Bless America". "God" on our money. Businesses, and government offices close for major Christian holidays. Religious references are everywhere in government and the public arena, and have been since we were founded as a nation. In recent years, the blowback was to wish everyone Happy Holidays, because saying "Merry Christmas" may offend someone. Now, this past season, the tide seemed to be switching back. But, I will admit, this governor stepped way over the line. It's one thing for a politician to proclaim he is a Christian, or even make a religious reference or 2 in a speech, but to essentially condemn someone for not agreeing with his religious views? Stupid, and as was mentioned, it's also as "unChristian" as you can be.
Chief1C Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 There was a better way to word what he said. And I also have no reason to go to Alabama so I'll be steering clear of there. Oh, it didn't say that, I was just showing how I interpreted his words.
akflightmedic Posted January 20, 2011 Author Posted January 20, 2011 I don't believe you are incorrect. Jesus taught love and acceptance. This governor does not seem to teach this. He definately does not seem to be trying to be like jesus. "If anyone comes to me and does not HATE his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Jesus, Luke 14:26 Matthew 5:22 "22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[a] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[c] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." Luke 22: 36 "36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Take up arms for violence???) John 2:15 "15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables." (Wow, he got a whip and whipped them all out of the area, even threw some tables over in anger) Matthew 10:34 "34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Deuteronomy 23:2 says that bastards can not attend church unto the tenth generation. If Jesus was spawned by Mary and Jehovah as the Bible claims then he is technically a bastard and should not be the leader of the church. Yep...all about love and acceptance...these were just a SMALL sample of the many examples and no they are not out of context. And I do have two other points for discussion as they both creep into the religion/politics arena. 1. For those who see no harm in a little mingling of politics and religion, why are you so insistent that churches/religious groups be exempt form taxes? Cake and eat it too eh? 2. If 20% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion (miscarriage), does that make God the greatest abortionist of all since he is the one who controls, creates and plans everything...right? Or was the abortion necessary to teach that particular woman a lesson in humility or to prep her for the next great plan or to better appreciate what she has or will have further down the road? Serious questions....
Chief1C Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Really? Religious groups don't have to pay taxes? Can I be a one-man religious group? God must have to pay taxes.. If not, a terrible injustice has been done. There's actually a really interesting story to that statement, but I'd rather not disclose it in the open room, for security purposes. If anyone cares to hear about God and his back taxes, PM me. If I predetermine you to be trust worthy, I'll reply. Oh... Lets take on the "God did this for a reason" people. RANT ON. The first mistake anyone makes, is they say to me, God caused X to happen for a reason. It goes back to how one interprets statements. I've been told by so many people, in our tight knit, closed minded, contemporary asshole community... That "GOD" did, whatever we just returned from with the fire truck, for a reason. What a sick bastard, God must be, to burn small children to death. God made their smoke alarm not go off, for a reason. Guns don't kill, God does. Drunk drivers don't kill, God does. Speaking of that, where do I send the bill for Diazepam I had to be prescribed after a horrific fire one morning? Do I send it to the Pope? Does God, have a mailing address? Is it wrong to want to injure people, who say that to me? Rant Off.
akflightmedic Posted January 20, 2011 Author Posted January 20, 2011 Has there ever been a theocratic government in which non-believers and blasphemers were not threatened with any of fines, torture, imprisonment or death?
Just Plain Ruff Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I didn't say that he only taught love and acceptance. That was a big part of his teachings. And no you didn't take them out of context. There were lessons that Jesus wanted to teach and some of those lessons were about punishment and what would happen if you didn't follow God's laws. And with that said, I'm sure that there are those who will say "See I told you so, God and Jesus did preach hate and discontent" or whatever else those might say. I appreciate the arguments AK, I really do. I'm not about to change your mind that there is no God or change your belief structure, and I don't expect for you to change mine. This is why these arguments or discussions don't belong on an EMS website as they all boil down to he said she said and I believe this and I believe that. Unfortunately when people see their belief structure threatened or challenged they resort to becoming defensive and often hostile. Which is unfortunate because that is where the valuable discourse ends and mere rhetoric and emotions begin. I also do not have an answer to your theocracy question as I'm not as up on theocratic governments as I probably should be. The governor has every right to say what he said, he can say it from the top of the Empire state building all the way to the bottom of death valley. Should he have said it differently or not at all, I'm not so sure. Was his message miscontrued, maybe and according to him it was. Did he bow to pressure to apologize - yes I believe he did. The reason why I think he bowed to pressure to apologize is that if he truly, and I mean TRULY believed those statements he made, then he would not apologize for making those statements. I think that he caved in his response and apology but then again that's just me. I wonder what the response from the anti defamation league would have been if he had put Islamic or Hindu or any other religion than Christianity out there in his speech. What the response would have been from all the groups who are attacking him right now. I'd bet that the Islamic groups would not be so up in arms, I'll bet that the anti-defamation league would not be so angry. Those are just my thoughts on this matter.
DwayneEMTP Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I don't share Christian beliefs, though I do believe that I share many of the Christian values, and actually seem to live them more thoroughly and in more of a spirit of love and friendship than many of my Christian neighbors..at least if appears so to me. As we seem to be wanting to start a religious war in this thread, I'm going to throw in my two cents... Many of my Christian friends and neighbors feel pity for me when I choose to share my beliefs, or in their view, lack of beliefs and and find me unacceptable company until such a time as I see the error of my ways, repent, and become saved. It seems that Jesus, according to the bible, which I have in fact read cover to cover several times, Jesus had not trouble loving non believers, why do the mortal Christians find it so challenging to do the same? On the flip side, why is it that those that don't share the Christian beliefs seem to find such joy in trying to stain it for those that do? Many in the Christian faith are there for honest and sincere reasons, some others of course are just assholes. But if they find peace and community in their religion, where do you find the joy in trying to destroy that? What have you won by backing them into a corner that they can't possibly logically defend? The truth is awesome and powerful, it is the reason that I can't give myself over to a religion, but does being a lover of the truth demand that we have to state 'our' truth regardless of the cost to others? It's been my experience that trying to change someones' religious views is akin to telling people that smoking is going to kill them. You're wasting your breath. Something in life is going to drive them in one direction or another and they will make their choices, and then perhaps those choices will change. But simple statements will not do it. I am not a Christian, but I am in love with a Christian, most of the people most important to me are Christian of one faith or another. I don't want you to lose your faith, I simply don't want you to attempt to define me according to your beliefs. That seems reasonable, doesn't it? Dwayne
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