Just Plain Ruff Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Many of my Christian friends and neighbors feel pity for me when I choose to share my beliefs, or in their view, lack of beliefs and and find me unacceptable company until such a time as I see the error of my ways, repent, and become saved. It seems that Jesus, according to the bible, which I have in fact read cover to cover several times, Jesus had not trouble loving non believers, why do the mortal Christians find it so challenging to do the same? Ruffems - I completely agree. I do not vilify non-believers and hope that I never do. I also see in my own church those who do not love non-believers. They sometimes think - my way or the highway. That is directly against Jesus's teachings. On the flip side, why is it that those that don't share the Christian beliefs seem to find such joy in trying to stain it for those that do? Many in the Christian faith are there for honest and sincere reasons, some others of course are just assholes. But if they find peace and community in their religion, where do you find the joy in trying to destroy that? What have you won by backing them into a corner that they can't possibly logically defend? The truth is awesome and powerful, it is the reason that I can't give myself over to a religion, but does being a lover of the truth demand that we have to state 'our' truth regardless of the cost to others? It's been my experience that trying to change someones' religious views is akin to telling people that smoking is going to kill them. You're wasting your breath. Something in life is going to drive them in one direction or another and they will make their choices, and then perhaps those choices will change. But simple statements will not do it. Ruffems - I asked this a while ago. Why do those who have no belief, or are atheist and agnostic take so much joy in attacking christians or any other religion? Why are my motives questioned when I disagree with another religion or when a christian disagrees in the spotlight with another religion they are vilified and slammed for their beliefs yet someone who is muslim or any other religion who goes up against or attacks christianity given to me what looks like a free pass? It seems, and this may be my own perception that christians are not allowed to express their faiths openly (it's not politically correct) but other those attacking christians are not called on the carpet. I am not a Christian, but I am in love with a Christian, most of the people most important to me are Christian of one faith or another. I don't want you to lose your faith, I simply don't want you to attempt to define me according to your beliefs. That seems reasonable, doesn't it? Ruffems - Dwayne, You know me better than for me to define you especially for your faith. I consider you a friend, even though you are a heathen but I would never give away our friendship because you were not a christian. I have many non-christian friends and I pray for them but i do not try to define them and I don't expect them to try to define me or change me. Do I wish Dwayne and my other friends were believers, absolutely but does it affect my friendship with them? not at all. Dwayne I am not trying to start a religious war on this thread, that was never my intent but I'm not sure that Dwayne was pointing me out. It's all good. Carry on. Dwayne, the heathen comment was a joke. I hope you took it that way. No offense intended. I didn't want to edit my post as editing sucks on this forum. It's very very hard to edit something if it's more than a screen in size. My scrolling gets all messed up and the editing area jumps all over. It may just be my computer but maybe not.
chbare Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Dwayne, you've really defined a profound concept. I would add that I look at things like this; our sun is around half way through it's main sequence. In all the billions of years up to this point, life in our sun's system has only developed to the point of having a few theories that cannot be tested, but attempt to define how our existence began. The best tools (that have physical evidence to back them up) we have available such as relativity break down into infinities when considering the possible beginning of our universe. By no means are our tools lacking in scientific insight and infact they are the best thing that billions of years of evolution can bring to the table to explain existence if you will. Yet, they break down, are hotly debated and continue to become more and more abstract. So, we really do not have a clue about the mechanisms that caused existence IMHO. I'm not even sure existence is a good word to define what I'm thinking about. With that, what I find it difficult to understand is how people on both sides of the God argument can be so hateful when humanity does not really know Jack Schyte IMHO. Personal beliefs are fine but what said governor did was not acceptable IMHO. As far as everybody else, I wish people would quit trying to one up each other on an argument that is currently inane IMHO. One more IMHO for good measure. Take care, chbare.
DwayneEMTP Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Ruff, no offense taken at all! Though I would be offended if you didn't find me and/or my opinions valuable enough for argument. And a religious war here isn't such a bad thing,(textual bullets have very limited range and stopping power), as I believe one of the most valuable lessons that we can teach here, though it rarely happens, is the value of respectful, intelligent debate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that you and I may have disagreed once or twice in the past? I mean my questions to be sincere, not rhetorical. At least to the non Christian crowd. And I agree completely with chbare on the inane nature of the discussion but believe that the value is not in the answers, but in learning to intelligently argue the questions. (Sorry, I'm trying to figure out how to reword that sentence so that it doesn't sound as if he and I disagree on the value of intelligently exploring questions, but have nothing so far.) I truly look forward to those with more intelligence, education and passion on these subjects continuing to move forward with this discussion. I believe it will be good, educational and relevant. Dwayne
Just Plain Ruff Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that you and I may have disagreed once or twice in the past? I believe we have, I believe we have.
Bieber Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I really don't understand this country's obsession with mingling politics and religion. In the majority of European countries, politicians are not asked about or pressured into divulging their religious alliances because, in all honesty, it doesn't matter. Who cares what the religious views of a politician are? We're not electing them to be our religious leaders, we're electing them to represent and interpret the will of the people in accordance to the law in the legislative, executive, and judicial systems. Yet here in America we hold the religion of our political leaders to be of supreme importance, to the point that non-Christians in many states have a hard time winning the majority vote based solely on their religious beliefs. I don't want to get into a debate regarding president Obama, but I will say that I am disappointed whenever I see people insisting he is a Muslim and either implying or directly stating that that would be a bad thing even if it were true. I really don't care if our president's a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Bahai, Hindu, Shinto, atheist, agnostic, whatever--I just want from my president and all of my political leaders to do their job well and to lead this country in the right direction. 1
uglyEMT Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) I want to add something. It always makes me laugh when we hear politicians spouting religious ferver all over the place. One thing comes to mind when I hear all this "stuff"..... Seperation of Church and State. Imagine if we got the religon out of politics too? More people have died over "God" then for any other reason, its really ashame. This asshat just bolsters my opinion that religon should not be part of government. Any who thats my opinion formed from 12 years of Catholic school and many family discussions. Edited January 20, 2011 by UGLyEMT
Chief1C Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I still think someone should check his closets for white and red robes.
crotchitymedic1986 Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 I think it is refreshing that he had the balls to say what he really believes instead of being like everyone else that lies through their teeth, and says whatever is politically correct. Like it or not, you now know where you stand with this guy. And I do believe that the church expects you to try to save the great unwashed at every chance you get.
HERBIE1 Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 I think it is refreshing that he had the balls to say what he really believes instead of being like everyone else that lies through their teeth, and says whatever is politically correct. Like it or not, you now know where you stand with this guy. And I do believe that the church expects you to try to save the great unwashed at every chance you get. Refreshing? I guess, but there are plenty of folks who say stupid things without any fear of reproach. Then again, as you note, we all know how he feels now, but as a politician who has made it to the governor's mansion, you would think he would know better than to say something stupid like this. I have no idea if the guy has always been evangelical, or if this is something new, but down there, I suspect it's not necessarily a bad thing to many folks. If this guy truly is hard core, then yeah, he's inappropriate and has to go. These holy roller types let religion dictate every facet of their lives, and for an elected official who makes public policy, that's a no-no. A politician can erect and worship an Elvis shrine in their basement for all I care- just do not let it interfere with or dictate what you get paid to do.
Just Plain Ruff Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Let's all remember that this was not his inaugural address but a speech in a church to his fellow believers and I am pretty sure they were all on the same page. Does this make his comments any less reproachful, I am not sure. I would bet if he were in a public forum and not a religious forum like he was in that day, that his remarks would have been different. I could be wrong but I think he felt the venue allowed his comments. I truly don't think that these remarks would have made me question whether he would be a fair governor for all of Alabama but then again I wasn't there to make the judgement Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
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