unions?

[ambodriver]

This board is mostly anti-union. So let he flames begin.

I am part of the IAFF, and with that I get a very livable wage, proper safety equipment, a steady and predictable wage increases, and protection against unfair firings.

I also work for a municipality and they are usually all union.

When I worked for the privates I took all sorts of abuse from "owners" with no medical experience and hot tempers. There was was nothing I could do. I felt powerless even though their claims that I was rude to some RN in a NH were false. I was fired without any investigation into the matter. I will tell you one thing: a union would never stand for that. Why should we have to play politics with some no nothing private ambulance company owner who scams medicare and pay employees wage equivlant to mcdonalds

Private ambulance companies could gain a lot from unionizing, but most of the employees don't know about it or are scared of being fired if they go pro union.

I'm sure there could be some downsides, but I believe the benefit would outweigh the negatives.

There is no way that any private ambulance employees are making 80-100k or the equivalent in there area. If there are it is rare. All privates i nthe chicago land area pay paramedics about 10-16 bucks an hour. Which is an INSULT. Municipal positions pay 60-90k a year (without being an officer), excellent health coverage, pensions, paid holiday time etc.

Private companies in the area pay 10-16$/hour. Horrible healthcare benefits, no retirment plan...or maybe a 401k with NO matching. Why? Because they do not have anyone standing up for them. Collective bargaining has it's place and allows appropriate pay. Should a paramedic live in the poverty level? I think not

Edited January 27, 2011 by ambodriver

[HERBIE1]

This board is mostly anti-union. So let he flames begin.

I am part of the IAFF, and with that I get a very livable wage, proper safety equipment, a steady and predictable wage increases, and protection against unfair firings.

I also work for a municipality and they are usually all union.

When I worked for the privates I took all sorts of abuse from "owners" with no medical experience and hot tempers. There was was nothing I could do. I felt powerless even though their claims that I was rude to some RN in a NH were false. I was fired without any investigation into the matter. I will tell you one thing: a union would never stand for that. Why should we have to play politics with some no nothing private ambulance company owner who scams medicare and pay employees wage equivlant to mcdonalds

Private ambulance companies could gain a lot from unionizing, but most of the employees don't know about it or are scared of being fired if they go pro union.

I'm sure there could be some downsides, but I believe the benefit would outweigh the negatives.

No, the board is not "mostly anti-union", it's mostly anti IAFF, and for good reason. This is an EMS board, and not only is EMS NOT the first priority of the IAFF, I would consider them to be an adversary. Unions have their benefits but do not be blind to the drawbacks- especially if you are a single role provider. It all depends on what you are looking for career wise, and how ambitious you are with your future. Someone recently posted a propaganda piece published by the IAFF that essentially outlined a plan for it's locals to eliminate private, hospital based and 3rd service providers. If that was your career path, how happy would you be with an organization who is trying to eliminate your position?

[ambodriver]

I think there goal would be to eliminate those services in order to make them union jobs and increase the number of people in it.

Honestly I can not see a drawback for me being in the IAFF, it should be noted that I am a single role paramedic. If I was not in the IAFF I would be making about 34k/year with lousy benefits and no pension. This year I grossed roughly 78k. I work 24 on and 72 off.

So please tell me what the drawbacks are for me to be in the union?

I don't want this to turn ugly so I mean no disrespect in my posts! I am interested to see what people are negotiating and getting paid while being a paramedic without unions and their fancy lawyers to sit down and make bargains.

Thanks in advance for any info.

[tniuqs]

Fortunately in the great white north it is a constitutional right to organise labour or associate with who one would care too. One is only FORCED to join a union when the employer is the government. Point is in today's day and age if your not not represented in some way you are the least likely to have any job security.

cheers

[HERBIE1]

I think there goal would be to eliminate those services in order to make them union jobs and increase the number of people in it.

Honestly I can not see a drawback for me being in the IAFF, it should be noted that I am a single role paramedic. If I was not in the IAFF I would be making about 34k/year with lousy benefits and no pension. This year I grossed roughly 78k. I work 24 on and 72 off.

So please tell me what the drawbacks are for me to be in the union?

I don't want this to turn ugly so I mean no disrespect in my posts! I am interested to see what people are negotiating and getting paid while being a paramedic without unions and their fancy lawyers to sit down and make bargains.

Thanks in advance for any info.

If you are satisfied with your gig, more power to you. I just have a few questions-

Is your primary motivation a paycheck, or do you desire to advance within your organization?

What is the career ladder like?

Does your service provide you with the latest in equipment, protocols, and training?

Does your service have enough ambos on the street, or are they more interested in keeping FSR jobs- ie outfitting fire apparatus as medical response units?

Do single role providers-especially chief officers- get the same respect and consideration as suppression members of similar ranks?

Are your run numbers constantly increasing, yet they will not provide additional EMS units?

Do you have 2 paramedic providers, and are they threatening to reduce that to one EMT and one medic?

Are department rules and regulations enforced equally between the 2 entities, or is one more likely to receive punishment?

Don't get me wrong- from a financial standpoint, union based pay is generally far better than private sector, but it's not always about the money for many folks. Money cannot but your sanity or your physical or mental well being.

Don't forget what IAFF stands for. Note that nowhere in that acronym does it say anything about EMS. Their EMS division is but a small portion of the entire organization's mission or their budget, and NOT their primary concern. Don't kid yourself- the IAFF will support and fight for EMS only as long as it benefits the vast majority of it's members- FF's.

[ambodriver]

Is your primary motivation a paycheck, or do you desire to advance within your organization?

What is the career ladder like?

Does your service provide you with the latest in equipment, protocols, and training?

Does your service have enough ambos on the street, or are they more interested in keeping FSR jobs- ie outfitting fire apparatus as medical response units?

Do single role providers-especially chief officers- get the same respect and consideration as suppression members of similar ranks?

Are your run numbers constantly increasing, yet they will not provide additional EMS units?

Do you have 2 paramedic providers, and are they threatening to reduce that to one EMT and one medic?

Are department rules and regulations enforced equally between the 2 entities, or is one more likely to receive punishment?

1) career ladder involves many different positions in the EMS 'career' ladder. We have a position for the attendant which is ultimately responsible for the crew and writes reports. We have a paramedic commander who runs the shifts on there particular firehouse, and then regional EMS chiefs who supervise a region. We also have the option to cross over if one would like to be a medic on the engine (i have no interest in this)

2) We lag behind with some of the cutting edge equipment but we have what we need. Training is plentiful and required...we also get paid to do it.

3) We have lots of ambos on the street--some are super busy. They should be adding some more. We also have ALS engines.

4) EMS chiefs and officers get respect from the fire side. They are integral to each other.

5) Runs are increasing but we get the job done. They will have to add more units in the near future. Why not? EMS is a cash cow.

6) We have 2 medics....no threats of going 1 on 1. It's something we fight for in the contract and always will get.

7) Rules and regs are about the same.

Money cannot buy happiness--you are right. But all medics should get what they deserve and be able to live comfortably and not have to work 90 hours weeks and have 2 jobs in orders to raise a family.

Let me ask some questions now.

1) Would you rather have those ranger glidescopes and be living at the poverty line, or live comfortably and have the traditional tools?

2) Would you rather have have a unmatched 401k, work a private ambulance until you re 60 doing pysch. x-fers, or retire at 50-55 with a pension and be able to live out your old age with dignity?

3) Would you rather be at the whim of some owner of a private ambulance who cares about nothing but profits, or a municipal union gig that will give you representation and have your back to investigate issues?

Is my primary motivation a paycheck? No. No one gets into this job to get paid. I make decent money but I'm sure I could have made a lot more doing something else non-related. However it is important to make a decent living, have good benefits and a retirement plan. Why not? We wade around in the $hit....impossible rescues, BS calls, dirty frustrating work. We are subjected to gruesome sights, we have to wrestle that crazy drunk, resuscitate babies in someones home with families tugging at you sleeves. The stress of this job is crazy and we deserve to do it for a livable wage. Is that a liberal and self serving viewpoint? Damn right, but I won't back down from it. Unions negotiate the contracts that allow us to get what we deserve. It's democratic process, we vote on our leadres in the union. IS it perfect???? OF COURSE not....but it is 100000000000000000000X better then the alternative.

[NYCEMS9115]

I've been saying this on other threads. Majority (>50%) of the EMS/PHC transported patient are Medicaid pts. In NYS, MK pays just under $140 for Ambulance Transport. Regardless of care, service, BLS or ALS. Let's do the maff. Lol!

An ALS Unit (1EMT & 1Medic) transports 1 MK pt (no care rendered). It takes; for argument sakes; a total of 1hr to complete the call: from enroute to available. That's $20 for the Medic and $12 for the EMT. A gallon of desiel was used ($3). So far the company is up $105. Sounds like a profit but you have to factor in all the yearly expenses and divide it by 365 then by 24. It costs about $1M (insurance, vehicle maintenance, supplies, communication, wages, benefits, etc) to run 1 Ambulance 25hr/365d; that's $114/day. Add back the $35 into this and it cost $149 for the company to do the call for a $140 return.

So regardless if you have a Union or not; we're all losing here. DHHS needs to step up and reimburse more so all of us can thrive & be employed. Have MK pts pay premiums & copays. If the owner(s) make no money; we don't make money. Whether you make $78K or $28K: we are doomed if insurance premiums keep dropping and expenses keep rising. That's simple math; not abacus math.

Sorry correction; its 24hrs and $114/hour..... Apologies...

[tniuqs]

Just curious .. on a 911 call what and how does a Fire Department charge for Crash Rescue or a Pumper with Medic ?

[Richard B the EMT]

Point is in today's day and age if your not not represented in some way you are the least likely to have any job security.

I see that as being across the boards, no matter which union, IAFF, Teamsters, AFSCME, or any other that I don't immediately know off hand.

[ambodriver]

Just curious .. on a 911 call what and how does a Fire Department charge for Crash Rescue or a Pumper with Medic ?

my department does not charge for this, nor for refusal even if we use drugs (i.e. d50)