Fire Service Based EMS, again.

[tniuqs]

Until,

"Response time is the absolute priority for medical

emergencies. Firefighters are in the best position to

respond quickly and provide vital services."

Is changed to,

"Education is the absolute priority for medical

emergencies. Firefighters are the most well

educated and in the best position to

respond quickly and provide vital services."

I will always be opposed to fire based EMS. For me, it truly is that simple.

Dwayne

Agreed ... mostly, although a bit of a blanket last statement, there are stellar and Fire combined EMS services but those Fire services here have been infiltrated by proven Field Paramedics at upper levels, making a huge difference in priorities.

If you would so allow "in addition"

Response time TO patient is important but does in no way "STOP" the clock !

The public needs to know that when medical aid is to be provided the clock really just started and a means of transport is rather important in fact more essential.The FF are basing all their PR on the 100 yard dash, vs the Paramedics are the little known "800" not a dash nor a marathon runner in Patient care.

cheers

[Richard B the EMT]

You are correct that the Iaff has a much better propaganda machine than EMS.

The Fire service has been in existence since the 1800's and has long been looked upon as Hero's.

Along came 9-11 and the hero worship got bigger. It became all about the 343 FF's that gave their all that day,

Yes they made the ultimate sacrifice on that fateful day, doing the job they loved.

What about the thousands of others who lost their lives that day?

Those who have been established longer will always be the better known group, young grasshopper.

Organized Fire Departments became, well, organized, due to the actions of a Philadelphia, PA politician named Dr. Benjamin Franklin, in the 1700s, and, as such, may actually be older as organized, than the LEOs.

Someone just made a common error. It was not 343 Fire fighters who died, it was 340 Fire Fighters and their supervisory personnel, Father Mike Judge (a department chaplain), and Paramedics Ricardo Quinn (posthumously promoted to Lieutenant) and Carlos Lillo (one of my EMS Academy classmates).

Seemingly forgotten amongst the 3 thousand are some 8 EMTs or Paramedics who were not members of the FDNY. Some were Volunteer EMTs who worked their day jobs at the Trade Center, one was in an IFT service that responded (Mark Schwartz, of Hunter Ambulance/Ambulette Service, a night manager who also came on the road to do calls), and one was working his day job doing research at One Police Plaza, for a lawyer firm, and decided to run over and help (sorry, short on a name, but he was with Forest Hills Volunteer Ambulance Corps).

[crotchitymedic1986]

You should be saying "Thank You" for this, instead of mocking it. Municipalities have been cutting their budgets for years now, and most have spared "Public Safety" or let them make smaller cuts than other departments. Now public safety is being scrutinized. If we have the double-dip recession that many experts are predicting (meaning the worst is yet to come), it may very well be your job that is lost next.

This organization has done a very good job in providing their constituents some "tools" to use to save their jobs.

If you work for a government based EMS that is not Fire-based, could you argue the benefits of not merging the two departments, with your politicians ?

If you are a private 911 service that operates off of a subsidy, could you argue why your service should not be replaced by another private service who is willing to do it for 50% less, or worse, willing to do it for "Zero-Subsidy" (the new trend).

If you are hospital-based, can your argue why your department (one of departments that loses money) should not be privatized ?

If you are a private non-emergency provider (non 911) can you argue why the municipal 911 department should not be allowed to take over your non-emergency business so that they can show a profit or less of a loss in their operations ?

If you think you will never be asked to justify your department's existency, you are living on another planet.

[Bieber]

You should be saying "Thank You" for this, instead of mocking it. Municipalities have been cutting their budgets for years now, and most have spared "Public Safety" or let them make smaller cuts than other departments. Now public safety is being scrutinized. If we have the double-dip recession that many experts are predicting (meaning the worst is yet to come), it may very well be your job that is lost next.

With all due respect, I will never say thank you for the IAFF working to bring down educational standards, for twisting the facts in their addresses to the general public, or for trying to replace me or any other paramedic with a firefighter so they can keep their jobs. The way I look at it, the IAFF is a drowning man who's latching onto EMS to try and keep afloat, regardless of the fact they're bringing us down with them. I feel bad for them, I really do, they've worked themselves out of a job and now they're trying to keep from going under, but that's their problem to figure out--not ours. EMS is emergency medical services, not fire and emergency medical services. I get that they're drowning, but they don't have to bring anyone down to Davy Jones' locker (+1 for using that phrase in an EMS discussion) with them.

This organization has done a very good job in providing their constituents some "tools" to use to save their jobs.

Yes they have, but at what cost? This industry is about what's in the best interest for the patient, not "what's in the best interest of keeping firefighter jobs"; and because of that, an organization that exists solely to keep firefighter jobs is NOT working in the interests of the patient but in their own interests.

If you work for a government based EMS that is not Fire-based, could you argue the benefits of not merging the two departments, with your politicians ?

Yes, I can. And I gladly will. I learned from day one that EMS has to constantly fight for its very existence, and I for one will not give up on a progressive, constantly advancing, constantly improving EMS. I will fight for an independent, high quality, progressive and advancing EMS as unapologetically as the IAFF fights for a fire based EMS. Don't get me wrong, I'm not inherently opposed to fire based EMS--if it's done right. But the fire based EMS that the IAFF endorses and that many fire departments seem to endorse is not the kind of EMS I will ever support.

If you think you will never be asked to justify your department's existency, you are living on another planet.

You're a hundred percent right about that.

[HERBIE1]

If you think you will never be asked to justify your department's existency, you are living on another planet.

This is the issue in a nutshell. The IAFF is not trying to justify their existence per se, but they are looking to keep their funding levels and protect jobs. The only way they can do that is to make a claim that they are best suited to provide EMS. In many cases, we know that is not true, but we simply do not have the political muscle- at least not on a national scale- to mount a defense to that argument..

[aussiephil]

There are not Pro's to fire based EMS, never has been, never will be.

EMS is as associated to fire as Security is to Fire.

There is no relevence, except EMS can finacially justify Fire.

The stats can be bent to suit their argument, they always will do that, but simply Fire is a Profession, EMS is a profession, why do we insist on the conversations when in reallity it is a disrespect to EMS to insist that they are better if they are fire based. Let me turn this around. As EMS do more work than fire, generate more revenue than fire, should we not look at fire being a part of EMS, making them the poor mistreated cousin?

[JTpaintball70]

All this talk makes me happy to work for a municipal third service. And since our town doesn't waste money by paying firefighters and none of our vollie ffs are EMTs... we don't have to worry about the form trying to merge us.

[HERBIE1]

There are not Pro's to fire based EMS, never has been, never will be.

EMS is as associated to fire as Security is to Fire.

There is no relevence, except EMS can finacially justify Fire.

The stats can be bent to suit their argument, they always will do that, but simply Fire is a Profession, EMS is a profession, why do we insist on the conversations when in reallity it is a disrespect to EMS to insist that they are better if they are fire based. Let me turn this around. As EMS do more work than fire, generate more revenue than fire, should we not look at fire being a part of EMS, making them the poor mistreated cousin?

In a perfect world, you would be absolutely correct. The fact is, WE are the red headed step child here- at least in terms of political clout, funding, and propaganda tools. Of course we have plenty of ammo for a fire fight, we simply do not have the organization, nor the soldiers to mount an offensive.

Do I see this changing any time soon? Nope.

[tniuqs]

In a perfect world, you would be absolutely correct. The fact is, WE are the red headed step child here- at least in terms of political clout, funding, and propaganda tools. Of course we have plenty of ammo for a fire fight, we simply do not have the organization, nor the soldiers to mount an offensive.

Do I see this changing any time soon? Nope.

Well my guess is that OZ is closer to perfect than north america perhaps ?

cheers

[Richard B the EMT]

EMS is as associated to fire as Security is to Fire.

Historically, that is a bit of a misstatement. In New Amsterdam, what would over the centuries evolve into New York City, they had the "Rattle Watch", a group who would do a security patrol at night. Primary function: if they found a fire, they would sound a "Rattle", a kind of noisemaker, to sound the alarm for all the neighbors to respond to form bucket "brigades" to throw water onto the fires.

As for EMS in the FDNY, I always say, the Fire guys do their job, me and my EMSers do our job, and both of us do those respective jobs well! That must be why the guys from Engine 265/Ladder 121 seem to like me, in the first combined FD/EMS "House" in the city, as I have made that statement in their presence numerous times.