Fire Service Based EMS, again.

[HERBIE1]

http://www.thespec.c...r-cent-pay-hike

Well this is going over like a LEAD BALLOON.

Agreed Ruff:

Where I pay taxes we have a 3 million dollar Firehall (plus 4 trucks) the call volume 30 calls a year serving a population of 10,000 folks, highest level of training is EMR (very basic first aider) and only 2 vollies FF out of 38 have that advanced level of care.

Closest "2" ALS unit's are a 20 minute response time away best case scenario and serving a population of < 100,0000.

Do the math in my hood and it appears something is wrong .

Is that a typo? 30 calls a year? My gawd, there have been countless days I have done that in a single day. LOL

I get what you are saying- there certainly are inequities in our priorities as well as our funding of services.

Sadly, It's a never ending battle.

[tniuqs]

Is that a typo? 30 calls a year? My gawd, there have been countless days I have done that in a single day. LOL

I get what you are saying- there certainly are inequities in our priorities as well as our funding of services.

Sadly, It's a never ending battle.

no typo

[HERBIE1]

no typo

Totally unfair.

[Richard B the EMT]

As anyone who crunches numbers regularly can tell you, simple manipulation of data can change what those numbers say. .

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Samuel Clemmins, A K A Mark Twain.

[HERBIE1]

Samuel Clemmins, A K A Mark Twain.

I've always loved that quote.

[island emt]

Bieber: I give you credit for your enthusiasm young Jedi.

You are correct that the Iaff has a much better propaganda machine than EMS.

The Fire service has been in existence since the 1800's and has long been looked upon as Hero's.

Along came 9-11 and the hero worship got bigger. It became all about the 343 FF's that gave their all that day,

Yes they made the ultimate sacrifice on that fateful day, doing the job they loved.

What about the thousands of others who lost their lives that day?

Yet here we are just a short ten years later , with the economy in the toilet , & many large cities and towns are laying off those same previously untouchable hero's.

Fire stations are being closed across the country , many departments have been cut by as much as 50% of their former staffing levels and the union is desperate to paint a picture to the politicians that they are the best bang for the buck. They can do it all.

Just today the SAFER program announced a 13.7 million $ grant to the city of Trenton NJ to rehire 61 firefighters for two years. Do the math. It works out to about $112,500 per man per year for salary & benefits. I don't know of anyone in EMS thats making that outside of the fire service.

You are correct in thinking that EMS needs the same kind of political clout and recognition as the fire service.

However when a FF save a life , it's headline news for doing what we do every day, and we can't talk about it because of privacy/confidentiality laws.

EMS has an image issue , in the fact that unless someone needs our services they don't generally think about us at all.

Keep up the good fight.

[DwayneEMTP]

Until,

"Response time is the absolute priority for medical

emergencies. Firefighters are in the best position to

respond quickly and provide vital services."

Is changed to,

"Education is the absolute priority for medical

emergencies. Firefighters are the most well

educated and in the best position to

respond quickly and provide vital services."

I will always be opposed to fire based EMS. For me, it truly is that simple.

Dwayne

[HERBIE1]

Until,

"Response time is the absolute priority for medical

emergencies. Firefighters are in the best position to

respond quickly and provide vital services."

Is changed to,

"Education is the absolute priority for medical

emergencies. Firefighters are the most well

educated and in the best position to

respond quickly and provide vital services."

I will always be opposed to fire based EMS. For me, it truly is that simple.

Dwayne

Well Dwayne, I agree with your premise, but I would have to say that your statement could be amended to include making education a priority for ALL prehospital providers- from first responder to paramedic and beyond. We've discussed it many times here, but there are too many paramedic diploma mills that churn out folks who can pass a test, but may not truly grasp the big picture.

When you finish any degree or certification, that diploma does not automatically make you an expert in your particular field, nor does it enable you to immediately function without some additional level of indoctrination/training/familiarity with your tasks. It does open doors and certifies that on some level, you have attained a proficiency in a particular subject or field of study.

I submit that an education simply teaches someone how to learn, how to apply logic and reason to solve a problem, and how to find answers to something you may not know. As you advance in your studies-undergrad, grad school, post grad, professional school, etc, obviously you learn more about your subject, but you also sharpen your logic and reasoning skills, mature as a person, and essentially develop into an adult. The passage of time and the pursuit of higher education forces us to start basing our actions and personal choices on some developing moral or ethical code, vs seat of the pants, impetuous decision making.

We all know that doctors spend a lot of time getting their education, so obviously their medical skills and knowledge are unsurpassed, but what I think they also have is a more refined sense of ethics and morality- at least in terms of patient care. For years, under the supervision of an attending, they treat patients, but are also exposed to a myriad of "grey area" situations that illustrate how complicated their profession can be. Yes, many of us have well defined and developed moral centers, but many younger folks are still figuring things out, and many times they have yet to experience enough life situations to force them to confront moral and ethical dilemmas. It can be hard to make a judgment call when you have little life experience confronting such difficult choices.

I'm not at all saying that anyone without gray hair is immoral or unethical, but in terms of doing this job, at least getting an education slows things down and hopefully forces us to merge the didactic and book knowledge with our real life experiences.

There are plenty of competent FF's who understand the gravity and nuances of what medical care is all about. The problem is, those are also NOT the guys running the show and making policy.

[Bieber]

I submit that an education simply teaches someone how to learn, how to apply logic and reason to solve a problem, and how to find answers to something you may not know. As you advance in your studies-undergrad, grad school, post grad, professional school, etc, obviously you learn more about your subject, but you also sharpen your logic and reasoning skills, mature as a person, and essentially develop into an adult. The passage of time and the pursuit of higher education forces us to start basing our actions and personal choices on some developing moral or ethical code, vs seat of the pants, impetuous decision making.

We all know that doctors spend a lot of time getting their education, so obviously their medical skills and knowledge are unsurpassed, but what I think they also have is a more refined sense of ethics and morality- at least in terms of patient care. For years, under the supervision of an attending, they treat patients, but are also exposed to a myriad of "grey area" situations that illustrate how complicated their profession can be. Yes, many of us have well defined and developed moral centers, but many younger folks are still figuring things out, and many times they have yet to experience enough life situations to force them to confront moral and ethical dilemmas. It can be hard to make a judgment call when you have little life experience confronting such difficult choices.

I'm not at all saying that anyone without gray hair is immoral or unethical, but in terms of doing this job, at least getting an education slows things down and hopefully forces us to merge the didactic and book knowledge with our real life experiences.

I really enjoyed this part of your post and I completely agree with it. Being new to this field, I've felt almost "assaulted" by the immense number of grey areas, and while I may have a card that says I'm a paramedic, I certainly have not been doing this long enough to have a good answer for all of those situations. Extending our education and especially lengthening internship I think should be primary goals of EMS educational reform. You can't possibly see and do everything during internship, just like physicians can't possibly see and do everything during residency, but they certainly have a lot more time to become better entry level physicians than paramedic students do to become good entry level paramedics.

[HERBIE1]

I really enjoyed this part of your post and I completely agree with it. Being new to this field, I've felt almost "assaulted" by the immense number of grey areas, and while I may have a card that says I'm a paramedic, I certainly have not been doing this long enough to have a good answer for all of those situations. Extending our education and especially lengthening internship I think should be primary goals of EMS educational reform. You can't possibly see and do everything during internship, just like physicians can't possibly see and do everything during residency, but they certainly have a lot more time to become better entry level physicians than paramedic students do to become good entry level paramedics.

Thanks. Well, they don't call it "practicing" medicine for nothing. LOL

I'll let you in on a little secret, Bieber- I don't think you can ever have a "good" answer for every situation, but you come up with the best possible solution, based on what you bring to the table- whether it be first responder or a neurosurgeon. Yes, as we get some time in the business, we may become very comfortable and confident in what we do, but just when you think you've seen every strange situation, something throws us for a loop and we need to come up with a new plan to deal with it. To me, that's the best part of this job-the initial "Aw crap" moments, and then devising a solution to the problem.

As you say, there ARE many gray areas, and the most important thing we can have is a tool box to draw from to deal with these things. Education is external and the basis of what we do, experience comes with time, our morals and ethics become more defined as we get older, and we use all these things not only on the job, but in our every day lives as well.