Patient Has A Service Dog

[Just Plain Ruff]

It just occurs to me, I'd be willing to bet our flight medics would have a significantly different opinion on this.

Dwayne

Dwayne, I would agree. Flight is an exception. There's often no room for anyone else on the bird than what is intended.

Plus, if the patients condition warrants a helicopter then his condition is not conducive to having the service dog there.

I ask this one question - Let's say you transport the patient to the ER with the service dog, the patient crashes and is in no condition to give commands to his dog. What are your hospitals capabilities for housing these dogs until their owners are able to take over.

This brings up other questions such as - do hospitals have dog food to provide for the animal, Who, if the patient is unable to get out of bed, is going to take the dog out to go to the bathroom. Who will provide for the dog if the ownere does not survive their hospitalization?

All valid questions.

[Linuss]

Honestly it will depend on how I view the dog at that time. I'll take the lickings from my superiors later if I refuse to take the dog due to me not feeling safe. Think about it. If the owner is acutely ill or screaming in agony, the dog may think you're trying to hurt them, regardless of how nice the dog usually is.

We were called to a house last night with 3 dogs running around. We waited for over 20 minutes for SO to show up for our protection from the dogs (a pit, a boxer and a husky) who were acting odd around our rig when we pulled up. Once we got inside, the patient said "My dogs don't bite"

I asked what his bandaging and stitches were on his arm, and his reply? "My dogs bit me"

I have no problems with dogs, I have 5 of them. However, if a dog doesn't make me feel safe, the AWD laws be damned, the dog stays behind, and I'll deal with the complaints later. Not like the patient is going to be walking around the hospital the very minute they get there. But, again, it's to be taken case by case, and with most service dogs I've met, they would go with the owner.

[FireMedic65]

Dwayne, I would agree. Flight is an exception. There's often no room for anyone else on the bird than what is intended.

Plus, if the patients condition warrants a helicopter then his condition is not conducive to having the service dog there.

I ask this one question - Let's say you transport the patient to the ER with the service dog, the patient crashes and is in no condition to give commands to his dog. What are your hospitals capabilities for housing these dogs until their owners are able to take over.

This brings up other questions such as - do hospitals have dog food to provide for the animal, Who, if the patient is unable to get out of bed, is going to take the dog out to go to the bathroom. Who will provide for the dog if the ownere does not survive their hospitalization?

All valid questions.

I never seen dog food in a hospital. But I am sure arrangements could be made if the patient was staying there for an extended period of time. Taking the dog out for a walk to use the bathroom might be a relief for a few staff members. A chance to get outside and a break from patients. Also, an excuse to go smoke for those who do smoke.

[paramedicmike]

It just occurs to me, I'd be willing to bet our flight medics would have a significantly different opinion on this.

Dwayne

Nope. Not in the least.

Admittedly, there are addition considerations at play... space being towards the top of the list. But if the pilot ok's it and there's room in the a/c the dog will fly.

As for Ruff's very legitimate questions, every hospital to which I've transported patients has had some protocol in place to handle service dogs in a variety of situations ranging from ER visits to in-patient stays. Accommodations were routinely made with regards to both the patient and the service animal. These accommodations included providing appropriate care for the animal while the patient was hospitalized. In cases where a longer in-patient admission took place, or in cases where the patient was incapacitated, unconscious or similar, staffers will work with family, training agencies or other appropriate organization to arrange care for the service animal until the patient was well enough to need the assistance of the animal again.

[DwayneEMTP]

Nope. Not in the least.

Admittedly, there are addition considerations at play... space being towards the top of the list. But if the pilot ok's it and there's room in the a/c the dog will fly.

As for Ruff's very legitimate questions, every hospital to which I've transported patients has had some protocol in place to handle service dogs in a variety of situations ranging from ER visits to in-patient stays. Accommodations were routinely made with regards to both the patient and the service animal. These accommodations included providing appropriate care for the animal while the patient was hospitalized. In cases where a longer in-patient admission took place, or in cases where the patient was incapacitated, unconscious or similar, staffers will work with family, training agencies or other appropriate organization to arrange care for the service animal until the patient was well enough to need the assistance of the animal again.

Again I ask, why are these accommodations being made for what is now for all practical purposes a pet. Perhaps there are a bunch of services that the average service animal can provide that a hospital staff member can't?

I guess it seems to be the heroic, good hearted answer to say, "We don't separate them from their people for any reason!" But why not? Because of emotional attachment? I've had a ton of elderly people cry themselves to exhaustion at the thought of leaving their pet at home, yet I'm unaware of any cases where the hospital made special accommodations for them. I'm not getting what is different here?

A person with an aid animal visiting the hospital? The need is obvious as they may need the services of their animal. The person in the hospital? I don't get it.

Dwayne

[Happiness]

I have been around a few service dogs since I was a teen. I also had 2 german shepherds that I use to show. Now many will think show dogs what kind of training is that well You try to convince a male dog that any one is allowed to take a grab at his testicals and he isnt allowed to react. I understand that many service dogs are picked for non-aggression qualities, but it is a fact that any dog that is close to the owner/operator will react in a protective way when something out of the ordinary is going on. If you happen to have to do CPR on a pt, the dog is not going to understand that you are trying to save his friends life, he will see it as you are hurting them.

To be honest I dont think there really is a time where I would not let a dog in my ambulance. One thing around here is that we have beaches and people take their dogs with them. If I had to take a pt off of the beach and no one was around to take the dog its in the Ambo with me. This is one of those senerios that will have a what if coponante no matter how look at it.

Now where is original OP to answer "this can happen to you" question that he left us with

[paramedicmike]

That's just it. They're not pets. They haven't been raised or trained to be pets. Even if their person is incapacitated they still aren't pets. These are working animals. A lot of time, energy and money has been invested in preparing these animals for the jobs they perform. Do they also provide companionship to their people? Absolutely. The best way I've heard it described to me (by someone who relied on a seeing eye dog) was that it's kinda' like being a friend with your boss. You may be great friends. The work relationship will always come first.

These animals become extensions of their people. Removing the animal removes that individual's independence, mobility and ability to function in daily society. It's effectively removing one of the individual's senses. Just because the patient is sick or injured doesn't mean they suddenly lose their autonomy.

[Linuss]

These animals become extensions of their people. Removing the animal removes that individual's independence, mobility and ability to function in daily society. It's effectively removing one of the individual's senses. Just because the patient is sick or injured doesn't mean they suddenly lose their autonomy.

You say that as if they will lose their dog forever for going to the hospital.

Realistically, a patient will not need their dog during the first part of their visit to the hospital. People will be taking them places and doing things for them, especially if the patient is critical.

Like I said, if I don't feel safe and don't want to take them, I won't take them. Granted a lot has to happen for me to make that decision, but if I make it, I would LOVE for someone to throw a hissy fit.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Like I said, if I don't feel safe and don't want to take them, I won't take them. Granted a lot has to happen for me to make that decision, but if I make it, I would LOVE for someone to throw a hissy fit.

You better be ready with a pretty good defense as to why you refused to take the service dog and I hope your service has pretty deep pockets.

I'm not saying that if you feel unsafe that you shouldn't take the dog but you better have a very strong case of your feeling safe aside from just saying "I didn't feel safe" because there are any number of attorneys out there who just love to take the ADA cases.

I'm just saying you better have a very sound and solid reason for refusing to take the dog.

You get some poor patient who gets on the stand in their wheelchair or whatever and play on the sympathies of a jury or a administrative judge and your service and YOU will lose.

[emtannie]

I'm certainly no expert on service animals, though I did train assist animals for handicapped patients when I was training, but what service is this animal going to provide during the ambulance ride or hospital stay other than emotional support? A person requiring a service animal will have human helpers to provide all of the necessary support and care plus a lot more.

And I think that Happiness makes a great point. If you have a severe fear of dogs, and I know many that due, transporting this dog in your unit may not be an option. Though it's nice to say "You just have to suck it up and provide pt care" that is not always possible. There is almost always a work-around, but not always. If this is an ALS patient and I simply can't bring myself to have the dog in the compartment, front or back, then either the dog stays, or the patient is completely informed of their condition and the consequences of refusing, as in any other situation, and refused. (Of course this assumes the common scenario addendum, "No other trucks available, a million miles out in the country without cell/radio service etc.)

Dwayne

Wow – for once I disagree with Dwayne! (ok, maybe this is the second time). I think you DO have to suck it up and provide patient care…. If that means you drive, and your partner attends, or you get another responder to drive, you do it. As I said in a previous post, the dogs are trained for travel, and can easily be seatbelted into a seat…. Why couldn’t you put the dog in the front passenger seat for transport while you attend in the back? The dog is secure, the patient is happy knowing their dog is with them, and you, even though you have a fear, can attend, knowing the dog is secured close enough for the patient to know they are there, yet far enough that you should still be comfortable.

As for emotional support, I will give a severe example as comparison…. Your son is ill, and in hospital. There are lots of hospital staff available to provide support. Is that the same as if you and Babs are there to give support? Somehow, I think not. The emotional attachment a person has for their service animal is one that you and I can’t quite understand, but it is a very strong bond, and I don’t think we can just make light of it and say “there are others who can give the same support.”

I ask this one question - Let's say you transport the patient to the ER with the service dog, the patient crashes and is in no condition to give commands to his dog. What are your hospitals capabilities for housing these dogs until their owners are able to take over.

This brings up other questions such as - do hospitals have dog food to provide for the animal, Who, if the patient is unable to get out of bed, is going to take the dog out to go to the bathroom. Who will provide for the dog if the ownere does not survive their hospitalization?

All valid questions.

Maybe I work in an area where we are just lucky, but our hospital has a number of arrangements in place for service dogs who need care if their human partner is in hospital. The hospital has people available day or night to come care for the dog, and in the interim, our city police department is always willing to take the dog and care for it.

Again I ask, why are these accommodations being made for what is now for all practical purposes a pet. Perhaps there are a bunch of services that the average service animal can provide that a hospital staff member can't?

I guess it seems to be the heroic, good hearted answer to say, "We don't separate them from their people for any reason!" But why not? Because of emotional attachment? I've had a ton of elderly people cry themselves to exhaustion at the thought of leaving their pet at home, yet I'm unaware of any cases where the hospital made special accommodations for them. I'm not getting what is different here?

A person with an aid animal visiting the hospital? The need is obvious as they may need the services of their animal. The person in the hospital? I don't get it.

Dwayne

Let’s go back to the original post…. The patient is alert and oriented, and will not leave home without their service animal. We aren’t talking about a patient who is incapacitated. This person is still depending on their animal for support. In this situation, yes, I would take the dog with me. If I was doing CPR, or the patient was in critical condition and unable to make that decision, I would make it based on the situation.

Once in hospital, then the hospital has to make the decision regarding the animal.

Dwayne, how many times have you transported a family member in order to make the patient more comfortable? What makes this so different? That service animal is an extension of that person, and transporting the animal will make that person more comfortable. I will refer again to my example above. That service animal does provide a type of support that a hospital staff member cannot.