Patient Has A Service Dog

[DwayneEMTP]

...Dwayne, how many times have you transported a family member in order to make the patient more comfortable? What makes this so different? That service animal is an extension of that person, and transporting the animal will make that person more comfortable. I will refer again to my example above. That service animal does provide a type of support that a hospital staff member cannot.

Again, I was trying to take it to the 'extreme scenario', of course I would if I could figure out any realistic way to do so. It just makes me ask the question, if we're bringing this animal for emotional support, why is the emotional support of a blind person more important than the emotional support of a non blind elderly person who lives with their pets as their only family and truly sees them as such? And if you don't know the type of person I mean here, then you've not been doing EMS very long.

So again, we should be bringing the dogs/cats for the older people that live with their pets as their family, right? As those pets could offer an amazing amount of emotional support that the hospital staff can not. And again, other than emotional support, no one has explained exactly what these animals are going to be doing for their owners in the ambulance/hospital environment.

Mike says they are more like a tool than a pet. So I would see it as being akin to a police officer and his weapon. I'm guessing that many feel naked without them, but are police officers allowed to keep their weapons in the hospital because it provides emotional support?

But what Dylan really needs in that environment, as he will have Babs and I, the same as other challenged people will have their family, is his desktop computer. Are you then going to dismantle his computer, transport it, and set it up in his hospital room for him? I will guarantee you that he will get at least as much comfort from that as another will from their aid dog. And if you're unwilling to do the former, then why will you jump through hoops for the latter?

I think what bugs me about this is the whole class thing. Handicapped deserved more consideration than none, women more than men, kids more than adults, etc. We talk and talk about how EVERYONE gets our very best efforts every time, but this conversation seems to put the lie to that...

Dwayne

[Just Plain Ruff]

I think what bugs me about this is the whole class thing. Handicapped deserved more consideration than none, women more than men, kids more than adults, etc. We talk and talk about how EVERYONE gets our very best efforts every time, but this conversation seems to put the lie to that...

Dwayne

I dont' think you are off base on this Dwayne but I think that you are equating equal for equal. An able bodied patient would be able to provide most of the aid that a service dog would be able to provide to the handicapped person.

So a able bodied person would be able to do most activities of daily living without the need of a service dog but a handicapped person is unable to do that so they need the dog.

An elderly person who can't live without their dog is different wholly than a disabled person who can't function without their service animal.

As for bringing the computer to the hospital with your son if needed, If it was a laptop then by all means I would. But if it's a desktop and he was going to be in the hospital for a extended period of time I can guarantee you that I would make every effort to tell the nurses that he needed the computer and see if they could help arrange getting his computer brought in.

I have actually done just that when an autistic patient was brought in to the ER. The family (who did not have a car) was adamant that they be able to bring in his computer for his care and I took my partner and we went over to the house and helped them pack it up, then we transported it in the ambulance, set it up in his room and made sure he was able to use it. It was a very good situation.

By the way, addition to my last post.

I have had those elderly ladies and gents who go to pieces when "precious" the pekinese dog is going to be left at home without them.

I have actually taken their dog and kept it at my house until the patient was well enough to come home.

I do know which patients you are talking about and I can name (firstnames) them by heart.

[HERBIE1]

There are no absolutes in special cases such as these. They do not happen every day, and even if there is a policy for such things. I'm thinking there is no way every possible scenario could be addressed. If a special needs kid needs a certain piece of equipment, a favorite toy, a favorite book, their favorite cup or plate, a blanket, etc, I will do everything in my power to make it happen. If an abled bodied kid needed something similar, I will do the same for them if at all possible.

Here is a position paper by the DOH and NY EMS. It clearly states that based on ADA standards you cannot ban a service animal for any reason unless the dog is a threat- aggressive, etc. I have never seen something like this happen. They must be allowed anywhere normal business is being conducted.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/07-01.htm

and from the ADA directly:

http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm

[DwayneEMTP]

...An elderly person who can't live without their dog is different wholly than a disabled person who can't function without their service animal....

I've asked very specifically over and over. This disabled person that can't live without their dog, what will this person perish from that the dog can provide and a human can't? I know we all feel good saying, "This dog is this person's link to a normal life!" But what makes that true in the hospital environment?

I feel good saying, "The Taliban are kind, but misunderstood souls. I believe that there is every sign that they will reverse their political/religious positions any day now!" That felt fucking awesome!! But don't you think that I should have some sort of examples to back that up? Even when dealing with those with special needs, shouldn't we have to be bothered to defend out points?

Why does the person with special needs need their animal in the hospital more than a cop needs his gun, or an elderly person needs the emotional support/comfort of their pet?

Dwayne

[scubanurse]

I've asked very specifically over and over. This disabled person that can't live without their dog, what will this person perish from that the dog can provide and a human can't? I know we all feel good saying, "This dog is this person's link to a normal life!" But what makes that true in the hospital environment?

I know of a dog who wears a special collar that when his owner is having a seizure, the dog jumps up and swipes the collar over a receiver and it helps to stop the seizure. Not sure specifically how it works. There have been studies that dogs can predict seizures before medical personnel and help their handler sit down to avoid injury.

Those are some of the ideas I have that a dog would provide help that we as medical providers might not be able to.

Not disagreeing but trying to present a scenario in which a service dog can provide a skill we can not.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Dwayne, I am seeing your point.

personally I would not hesitate taking a service dog to the hospital but then again I would not hesitate to take an item that would make any patient happy to the hospital depending on the item.

So if Aunt Edna said she couldn't go anywhere without her make up or her radio then I'll pack that up. I will also pack up a service dog or the equipment that a person emphatically demands they need if it will make their stay at the hospital easier.

I for one think as you do Dwayne that we shouldn't make exceptions for single case scenarios, either you take the dog or equipment or you don't. The law doesn't see it that way though.

I'm all for keeping the handicapped as independent as possible but there comes a limit I think.

Just what does the service dog provide. Does it provide the blind wiht the ability to walk on their own? Or does it provide the hands and feet of the handicapped individual? Does it help out with seizures or help when the patient's blood sugar drops too low? Jsut what is the service dogs duties?

In the end it's the law that trumps our opinion and thoughts. The law says that the service dog goes where the patient goes unless the dog is a danger to providers. Not taking the dog over the objections of it's owners is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Why do we have to do this based on the threat of a lawsuit when common sense would dictate that you just take the freaking dog with you. Since pets do not qualify under the ADA act they don't qualify and the ADA does not make any arrangements or rules for pets. But service dogs they do.

So in all reality it's not our problem. The ADA makes the rules on this and you better have a freaking good reason to refuse the dog to come.

Personally it really doesn't affect me in the least.

[Bieber]

I believe my service's policy is to make every reasonable accommodation for service animals with the understanding that if transporting the animal would be detrimental to or interfere with patient care or endanger the patient or crew then it will be left on scene and arrangements made to ensure another ride for the animal to get to the hospital. Honestly, I would much rather NOT have an animal in the back of the truck, but as long as it stays out of the way, I guess it wouldn't bother me too much.

[Richard B the EMT]

U.S. Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division

Disability Rights Section

Americans with Disabilities Act

ADA Business BRIEF: Service Animals

Service animals are animals that are individually trained to perform tasks for people with disabilities such as guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling wheelchairs, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, or performing other special tasks. Service animals are working animals, not pets.

Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), businesses and organizations that serve the public must allow people with disabilities to bring their service animals into all areas of the facility where customers are normally allowed to go. This federal law applies to all businesses open to the public, including restaurants, hotels, taxis and shuttles, grocery and department stores, hospitals and medical offices, theaters, health clubs, parks, and zoos.

Caption:

Businesses that serve the public must allow people with disabilities to enter with their service animal.

• Businesses may ask if an animal is a service animal or ask what tasks the animal has been trained to perform, but cannot require special ID cards for the animal or ask about the person's disability.
  
  
  
• People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be charged extra fees, isolated from other patrons, or treated less favorably than other patrons. However, if a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may be charged for damage caused by his or her service animal.
  
  
  
• A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the animal is out of control and the animal's owner does not take effective action to control it (for example, a dog that barks repeatedly during a movie) or (2) the animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.
  
  
  
• In these cases, the business should give the person with the disability the option to obtain goods and services without having the animal on the premises.
  
  
• Businesses that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.
  
  
  
• A business is not required to provide care or food for a service animal or provide a special location for it to relieve itself.
  
  

• Allergies and fear of animals are generally not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people with service animals.
  
  
  
• Violators of the ADA can be required to pay money damages and penalties.
  
  

Caption: Service animals are individually trained to perform tasks for people with disabilities.

If you have additional questions concerning the ADA and service animals, please call the Department's ADA Information Line at (800) 514-0301 (voice) or (800) 514-0383 (TTY) or visit the ADA Business Connection at ada.gov.

Duplication is encouraged. April 2002

Richard speaking, now. That is the information, directly from the source.

[DwayneEMTP]

I have no questions about the laws, so I don't know if that was meant to address my questions Richard or not, but if so, I'm not really sure how it does.

It seems the ones most vocal on this subject have become most quiet now that I've asked that we cease with feel good generalities and get down to specifics. (Mike and Kate excluded of course. Thanks for participating!)

Dwayne

Edit. Perhaps it's not clear on this thread that I am not arguing to separate these folks from their dogs? I'm not. I'm curious why many feel the need to defend this when they would not, have not, defended with the same vehemence the need for the elderly, who are often much more infirm then those with aid dogs.

I understand there is a law. I could give a rats ass about the law. I can't think of a single good or kind thing I've ever done because a law said that I had to. Why are the handicaped more entitled to have the emotional security of their aid animals in the hospital than anyone else who would benefit just as much from the emotional security of their pets?

Edited February 15, 2011 by DwayneEMTP

[Just Plain Ruff]

Which Mike are you referring to Dwayne?

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