Religous Practices Observance

[HERBIE1]

You have to love people that are motivated by litigation and CYA.

Ever hear of defensive medicine? Sorry, but CYA is what health care is all about- from the level of a neurosurgeon to a first responder. That's why we have protocols to follow and we don't get to free lance and make up the rules as we go along. Here in the US, lawyers are the reason we do much of what we do.

[11outof10]

I don't see a healthy respect for the possibility of legal action as a negative thing. If there is no fear of legal process, why bother writing reports at all? Just tell the nurse what happened and pack up right? But thats not really what i was referring to. There tends to be a generational gap in immigrant families. (i.e. grandparents that don't speak english at all raised in the same home with teenagers who have only lived in the U.S. Of course our first goal is to treat the pt with care and respect every single time, and treat them to the best of our ability. But i would never assume that alone would be acceptable in ALL cases. Its in the first ( or wherever) chapter of many EMS books. Treatment that we in the US find acceptable or even exemplary could be considered rude or offensive to others. ( the left handshake, the shoes.) It's impossible to be familiar with every culture. I guess on a case by case basis it would be difficult to evaluate the possible responses to every action. =) the more i think about it the more i favor the "sorry, no passengers." idea in these situations. Don't we have enough to deal with already?

[JPINFV]

Look to what is happening in Europe especially France where the burka has been banned, look to Quebec where the carrying of a Sikh ceremonial "non knife" has been banned in the Legislature .. I mean really rules are rules (they define a nation) why in our counties do we make exceptions to the rules ?

Because the US is supposed to be better than that?

Because it's just as stupid to feel "scared" over a non-knife or the fact that someone is wearing a hat on their own accord?

Because culture is never static and always changing? American culture now in no way resembles that of the 1700s, 1800s, or 1900s and has very little to do with people who take tolerance to the extreme. Are the Italians complaining because they no longer worship Roman Gods as a state religion?

If a Muslim individual is so "orthodox" in their view's and unreceptive of the this moral majority. Why are they even a candidate for naturalization / citizenship in their "chosen land".

...because all [insert religion here] Orthodox are immigrants?

MOST seriously: Honour killing has no place in North American culture, but once again points to some incomparability mixing cultures together.

Neither does killing witches, yet we still had the Salem Witch Trials.

Oh, and since we're on the Muslim Bashing Game, plenty of fundamentalist Christian religions are in no way compatible with the moral majority of this country. Can we kick them out to while we're at it on the same pretense used for the Muslims?

To the OP, have you considered simply contacting a local imam and asking if he would be willing to set up a presentation (heck, CME time) for the local EMS services? You can do the same with other religions/groups such as Jews and the issues of the Sabbath or how to competently work with the LGBT crowd.

[Richard B the EMT]

Neither does killing witches, yet we still had the Salem Witch Trials.

A reminder, that was in 1692. We didn't have the War For Independance from England, and the Declaration Of Independance until the mid 1770s.

Also, I have a number of friends and acquaintances who are self-proclaimed Witches. Some of them are even EMTs and Paramedics, and one is a Chiropractor with whom I went to grade school.

[JPINFV]

A reminder, that was in 1692. We didn't have the War For Independance from England, and the Declaration Of Independance until the mid 1770s.

Would you argue that the culture changed drastically over the years immediately preceding and after the American Revolution? If not, and culture is some mystical thing that should never change, then shouldn't that still be considered part of our culture?

[tniuqs]

Would you argue that the culture changed drastically over the years immediately preceding and after the American Revolution?

Debate or Argue ? How history of the American revolution got introduced into this discussion is beyond me, I try to deal in the here and now .. just saying.

Oh, and since we're on the Muslim Bashing Game

Oddly the discussion once this poster get involved is this accusatory tenor tone. A counterpoint could be that mutual respect should intelligibly be applied by all "cultures" more of a melting pot but oddly we see one group bending over backwards (perhaps fear of a the term itself used so loosely) and one group capitalizing on this weakness.

I will state once again my own personal belief that organized religion(s) are the root of all that is evil, look to the history of the entire world, lets not forget the nazis who were a non religion but organised group.

Look to what is happening in Europe especially France where the burka has been banned, look to Quebec where the carrying of a Sikh ceremonial "non knife" has been banned in the Legislature .. I mean really rules are rules (they define a nation) why in our counties do we make exceptions to the rules ?

Because the US is supposed to be better than that?

So the USA should modify the rules because one group cannot recognise that a blade is a blade is a blade ? The Scots carry a knife as far as traditional garb is concerned, but that's not acceptable ?

Point: Double standards do not make an equal society, or mutual respect.

Mercy Killing is not limited to one "religion" it is cultural deal and only directed towards women and where did we go wrong allowing them to vote and have equal rights .. ps discrimination based on sex trumps discrimination based religion well, just in my math books.

Dear Richard .. are all your EMT and Paramedic and Chiropractic friends Female ? If you are not offended please allow me to correct: Warlocks is the preferred term, as that is what I was informed and hey, anyone that can put a spell on me I am forced in good conscience, to respect.

For your pleasure and entertainment I introduce a supreme raciest Mr. Russell Peters, yet another Canadian Talent that you Americans stole away to call your own. I will never forgive Americans for stealing Gretsky and William Shatner (I am thinking of invading Hollywood to get them back) .. but that's a topic for a later day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQ_4k4YQ_I&feature=related

How to become ... insert word North American.

Edited February 20, 2011 by tniuqs

[crotchitymedic1986]

If I were visiting an Asian (true asian, just moved here) for dinner, I dont think I would expect them to cook me a dinner consisting of fried chicken, mashed potatoes, pinto beans, and homemade biscuits. Hopefully if he/she came to my home, they would not expect me to make a traditional asian meal.

People who have come to this country should respect our traditions, as we should if we went to their country. We should respect each other and try to honor each other's values if we can. With that being said, why hasn't anyone taken the proactive role (oh i forgot this is ems, we are always reactive, never proactive). I bet that no matter what city you live in, there is a church that represents these various foreigners (muslim, buddhist, johovah witness, mormons, pentecostals, goat worshipers, whatever), why not invite that church to create an inservice to educate you to their beliefs (you could create a file on your laptop that allows you to see these issues by clicking on the "muslim patient icon" you created. Why not go speak to their church, and walk through some scenarios to educate them to what we do (remember the youtube video of the guy transporting a dead patient on the back of a bicycle, and dropping him), maybe they do not know that we can do a 12 lead, and ambulance in their country might be little more than an empty van with lights and sirens.

So let's quit whining about what it should be, and get proactive and create what it WILL BE. Nah, lets sit on our fat asses and bitch about it, that is much easier.

[tniuqs]

Yeah ... what he said .. !

I charge the OP to do the homework with his the local iman .. and do post a couple of paragraph's information.

To make it worth his time and effort I will reciprocate and do an exposé on my local predominate culture, that I deal with every day.

CHEERS

[JPINFV]

Debate or Argue ? How history of the American revolution got introduced into this discussion is beyond me, I try to deal in the here and now .. just saying.

Is your thesis that we need to protect American culture from change? If culture in general is always changing (hence why Italy doesn't worship Roman Gods anymore or the culture of America today and in the 1770s are different), then what is there to protect? Hence a law protecting culture from change is about as useful as one that tries to prevent the spin of the earth.

Debate is just a form a civil arguing.

Oddly the discussion once this poster get involved is this accusatory tenor tone. A counterpoint could be that mutual respect should intelligibly be applied by all "cultures" more of a melting pot but oddly we see one group bending over backwards (perhaps fear of a the term itself used so loosely) and one group capitalizing on this weakness.

We see one group practicing a part of their culture and another group scared for no reason. Again, what threat is the hijab? What threat is the non-sword? Besides, of course, the fact that they are different? I have yet to hear anyone calling for ALL American women to wear Muslim dress, or everyone to wear Jewish dress, or for all men to wear Sikh dress. I do see, however, people who are needlessly uncomfortable because people of those religions wear the clothing mandated by those religions.

I will state once again my own personal belief that organized religion(s) are the root of all that is evil, look to the history of the entire world, lets not forget the nazis who were a non religion but organised group.

Your point besides Godwinning this thread?

So the USA should modify the rules because one group cannot recognise that a blade is a blade is a blade ? The Scots carry a knife as far as traditional garb is concerned, but that's not acceptable ?

Is a blade that cannot be unsheathed really a blade?

Can't blades below a specific length be carried in public anyways? After all, no one is going to jail for carrying a box cutter or pocket knife.

Regardless, why should we be concerned about otherwise law abiding citizens carrying weapons? The police, for a variety of reasons, are not there to protect us as individuals, so shouldn't we be allowed to take affirmative steps to protect ourselves, with arms if necessary? Of course I'm also all for conceal carry of fire arms.

Point: Double standards do not make an equal society, or mutual respect.

How is a hijab (which is the issue with the original poster) about a double standard? Should everyone be required to wear business formal so that we're now equal? Does not the followers of non-Christian religions deserve mutual respect as Christians? What would happen if the government decided to ban wearing crucifixes, since apparently, it's not mutual respect for non-Christian religions to wear symbols of their religion?

Mercy Killing is not limited to one "religion" it is cultural deal and only directed towards women and where did we go wrong allowing them to vote and have equal rights .. ps discrimination based on sex trumps discrimination based religion well, just in my math books.

Are you seriously comparing murder to religious dress? Seriously, leaping from Sikh and Muslims clothing (of which you picked an extreme of an extreme. I see hijabs constantly, but have never seen a burqa in the US. If a woman choose to wear one, than that is her prerogative) is an extremely large leap. So, let's ban Christianity, not because some females choose to wear head covering in church (which is bad enough, discrimination and all), but because some members choose to blow up abortion clinics, just like some members of other religions perform honor killings.

Oh, and let's ban American culture because of gangs too. After all, American culture idolizes things like the mob during prohibition.

Women in free societies are free to not follow any specific religion just as men are. Yes, there may be negative consequences when it comes to dealing with their family, but it is what it is and isn't limited to just Middle Eastern religions (After all, let's ban the Amish since they shun members who freely leave their society),

I bet that no matter what city you live in, there is a church that represents these various foreigners (muslim, buddhist, johovah witness, mormons, pentecostals, goat worshipers, whatever),

Why is the assumption that non-Christians are necessarily foreigners?

At what point does a family line because American even if they aren't Christian?

[Richard B the EMT]

Dear Richard .. are all your EMT and Paramedic and Chiropractic friends Female ? If you are not offended please allow me to correct: Warlocks is the preferred term, as that is what I was informed and hey, anyone that can put a spell on me I am forced in good conscience, to respect.

The Chiropractor was my friend from first grade (1961), before I had even heard the word Chiropractor. I didn't know she was a practicing Witch until a mutual friend told me, and she confirmed it, in 8th grade (1968). We never dated. When I was told, I was probably chasing a different girl, anyway (whom those who follow my writings here might recall as the one I asked to marry me, but got the "Let's be friends" speech, instead).

The EMTs and Paramedics who have identified themselves to me as being Witches have all, co-incidentally, been female, but they all have told me that the term "Warlock" is, for reasons never explained to me, almost strictly an American term for a male Witch. I don't know if that is the case, but it is what I have been informed. Depending on where one is from, both of us might be correct.

By the way, it is because of my teenage studies on things of a (perhaps) supernatural nature, that my Citizens Radio Service (CB Radio) "Handle", or on the air name, is the "Witch Doctor"!

Can we all now get back to EMS handling of Religious Practices, as it affects us doing our jobs?