12 week accelerated program Versus 2 yr Paramedic course.

[LegendaryPunk]

What a great discussion! A lot responses by people who seem to be very passionate about what they do and have given a lot of thought to this matter - certainly has given me a lot to think about.

Even though I'm only a rookie, as a current student in a paramedic program I'd like to throw my own two cents in as well...

I can't imagine cramming everything I've learned so far (much less what remains) into a 12-week period. To parrot what somebody else already said: the 2 year program feels condensed as it is. Would it be possible to cover everything classroom wise within 12 weeks? Probably. Would it be possible to digest everything in that same time period? No way (not with my feeble little brain at least).

Pharmacology, anatomy & physiology, pathophysiology, cardiology...so far all I've really learned about these subjects is that I don't know diddly about them. I honestly find it slightly terrifying to think about how "little" I'll have learned in medic class before being released into the world for precepting. My perspective of what it takes to become a medic has changed completely within the past year - from "two WHOLE years?" to "ONLY two years?!"

As others have said, I think ultimately it comes down to asking yourself, "What type of medic do I want to be?"

[DwayneEMTP]

I agree LP, the problem is that the vast majority of those that argue against the degree program don't have one. So you end up with a lot of crap like, "I don't know why I should have to take basket weaving just so I can put on oxygen!"

Now, that doesn't apply to everyone that disagreed here, but it's the most common type of comment. Those without one are experts on the value of having one. Kind of like when you ask many basics about ETTs.

I do agree, this have been a really good discussion. And your post was a great addition!

Dwayne

[Lone Star]

I agree LP, the problem is that the vast majority of those that argue against the degree program don't have one. So you end up with a lot of crap like, "I don't know why I should have to take basket weaving just so I can put on oxygen!"

Now, that doesn't apply to everyone that disagreed here, but it's the most common type of comment. Those without one are experts on the value of having one. Kind of like when you ask many basics about ETTs.

I do agree, this have been a really good discussion. And your post was a great addition!

Dwayne

Ok, I'm probably guilty of the highlighted quote, but I’ve learned that there is far more content and far more benefit to putting forth the effort and obtaining my degree.

My school offers both the Paramedic Technology Diploma and Degree courses. The easy way out would have been to pursue the Diploma, (after all, it IS the same course; right?), and I could have avoided all of the extra bullshit courses like Intro to Psychology, Intro to Sociology, Abnormal Psychology and praise the powers that be…..I could have avoided ALGEBRA!

The other side of that coin is this: without ever saying a word to my future employer, I will have convinced them that I really don’t like doing things ‘the right way’ when I can find a ‘shortcut’ along the way. Additionally, I would be cheating myself of having even half a chance to learn what makes the body ‘tick’ and how things work. (Sure, at this college, the Diploma course has a quarter of A&P; but not on the same level as the Degree course).

Those that know my story know that although I got lucky (time wise) due to injuries that have kept me out of the field, but this ain’t been no cake walk! (double negative intentional)

The whole point of my ramblings is this: While you may think that college is all ‘basket weaving 101’ and ‘music appreciation 1035’, every course I’ve taken (with the sole exception of Computer Concepts and Applications), all have some relevance to the field of EMS, and can benefit my patient and the care they receive.

Before you ask, “How is learning algebra going to help my patient?”; algebra isn’t about the actual math problem, it’s about developing your critical thinking skills…and that WILL benefit your patients!

No, the collegiate Paramedic doesn’t learn some ‘secret handshake’, nor do they teach some ‘college only skills’, but they DO give you a more ‘in depth’ understanding of WHAT we do; and WHY we do it.

These ‘patch mill’ courses will NOT teach you much more than how to pass the NREMT testing, and 12 weeks is not NEARLY enough time to be able to cover anything to the point that you can actually RETAIN it. These schools are only good for one thing, and that is certification and possible licensure of ‘cook book EMTs’… those that cannot function much beyond ‘what the book says’, only because they don’t have the benefits of the other courses required for a college degree!

Am I saying that all EMTs that come from these schools are inferior providers? Of course not! Some of the graduates from these schools have turned out to be good providers…but that’s it…’good’. You stand a better chance of becoming a ‘stellar provider’ from attending the college courses simply because of the prerequisites and required courses for that degree.

I’ve heard the expression “You don’t know how much you don’t know.” So many times that it was about to drive me up the wall. That was until I actually started my journey from the bottom of EMS for the second time. Now, I can't believe how ill prepared I REALLY was to hold someone's life in the balance of what I did or didn't know!

[DwayneEMTP]

Probably? Probably??? Go back a bit and every time you posted I wanted to kick you in the head until it turned to mush. Man, brother, some things have certainly changed....Or maybe I just mellowed?

Lone, I can tell you one down side your education in particular...

I actually had way more fun busting your balls a few years back than I do now hitting the positive button under 'em...But it's a close thing. Ok, not that close...I'm proud to be your peer now...Thanks for taking the time to help us learn.

Great post brother.

Dwayne

Edited for spelling only.

Edited March 24, 2011 by DwayneEMTP

[akflightmedic]

Before you ask, “How is learning algebra going to help my patient?”; algebra isn’t about the actual math problem, it’s about developing your critical thinking skills…and that WILL benefit your patients!

Do a search for Algebra in the forums, there are some great threads from 2005 and 2007 concerning this very topic. I even recall me specifically saying exactly what LS just said....

Anyways, there is a 2 year degree poll thread from 2007 which has some great comments from Rid, Dust,VS-eh, and many others...also I remember a certain medic wanna be at that time saying oh man when I become a medic...yadda yadda yadda....you know who you are, right ole man?

[Lone Star]

Do a search for Algebra in the forums, there are some great threads from 2005 and 2007 concerning this very topic. I even recall me specifically saying exactly what LS just said....

Anyways, there is a 2 year degree poll thread from 2007 which has some great comments from Rid, Dust,VS-eh, and many others...also I remember a certain medic wanna be at that time saying oh man when I become a medic...yadda yadda yadda....you know who you are, right ole man?

Of course I do, that's why I highlighted that particular phrase and was compelled to speak up.....if you remember correctly, I was also the one that offered the 'collegiate paramedic secret handshake' too....

[Timmy]

In Australia I really dont think its possible to become a paramedic in 12 weeks, the way you guys from abroad go about somethings just makes me wonder, its so foreign and bizarre. I think when Ive finished my training, education and have some experience under my belt Id like to come over to America and just see how it all works, from what you guys tell us on here I just have a burning desire to come over and see it for myself!

I think our non emergency patient transport course is longer in duration than some of your paramedic courses over there, to be a junior non emerg transport officer I think its a 3 month certificate level course then we have a one year diploma to be the senior transport officer and a 3 year degree for the emergency paramedics.

Believe it or not Im actually in my 4th year of full time study and I still dont hold a tertiary qualification, merely a nursing Diploma but figures crossed by the end of this year Ill be holding a shiny Bachelor of Nursing degree! I just cant wait to get out there and let the real learning begin!

One of our 3rd year subjects in the degree course is professional transition in nursing, its basically a course telling you not to stuff up when they let you out into the big wide world and what were in for from transition from Student to RN but it occasionally has some quality content. Part of the module is to make a career education plan, it basically makes you think that this degree is just the key to the rest of your life, never stop learning and gaining further education. Part of my plan is to ascertain post graduate qualifications in paediatrics and critical care which is another 2 years of work/study type learning after that Id very much like to do the RN to paramedic bridging program which is another 12 months of study but I think having a solid, well educated and skilled background in nursing will make you a much better independent practitioner being a paramedic.

I guess the take home message is dont take short cuts, you only live life once so why take the half hearted way when your missing out on so much education and extra knowledge and skills. If you want to be in the hard core section of medicine you might as well have the hardcore qualifications, skills and knowledge.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Timmy

[DwayneEMTP]

Of course I do, that's why I highlighted that particular phrase and was compelled to speak up.....if you remember correctly, I was also the one that offered the 'collegiate paramedic secret handshake' too....

Yeah, man, he could be talking about me too. Babs and I were just talking tonight about the City and I said, "Man, I don't know what kind of a provider I would be if I hadn't started my medic journey at the City..." And that's the truth. I was on my way to AMRs 7 month program, 5 hrs or A&P...man...I hate to think of it...

You all are a gift..were then, and though we've lost some amazing posters over the years, are still a gift now...

Dwayne

[Lone Star]

Probably? Probably??? Go back a bit and every time you posted I wanted to kick you in the head until it turned to mush. Man, brother, some things have certainly changed....Or maybe I just mellowed?

Lone, I can tell you one down side your education in particular...

I actually had way more fun busting your balls a few years back than I do now hitting the positive button under 'em...But it's a close thing. Ok, not that close...I'm proud to be your peer now...Thanks for taking the time to help us learn.

Great post brother.

Dwayne

Edited for spelling only.

And after the conversations we've had, I know that you'll still be looking for a reason to kick my head into mush!

You, AK, Dust, Rid, Asys (I can't believe I just said that name), VS (this one too), Vent, Hammer and a host of others have influenced me in ways that I'll never be able to repay. You guys and gals weren't always 'politically correct' (or very nice for that matter) in pointing out the errors of my thinking...constantly pushing me (or beating me over the head) to make me defend my position until such point that you either saw my logic; or I was forced to see the errors within it.

Anyways, there is a 2 year degree poll thread from 2007 which has some great comments from Rid, Dust,VS-eh, and many others...also I remember a certain medic wanna be at that time saying oh man when I become a medic...yadda yadda yadda....you know who you are, right ole man?

You know, when I made that comment; I was 'undereducated' then... now I know better. After all, isn't that what education is all about?

[ccmedoc]

My school offers both the Paramedic Technology Diploma and Degree courses. The easy way out would have been to pursue the Diploma, (after all, it IS the same course; right?), and I could have avoided all of the extra bullshit courses like Intro to Psychology, Intro to Sociology, Abnormal Psychology and praise the powers that be…..I could have avoided ALGEBRA!

The other side of that coin is this: without ever saying a word to my future employer, I will have convinced them that I really don’t like doing things ‘the right way’ when I can find a ‘shortcut’ along the way. Additionally, I would be cheating myself of having even half a chance to learn what makes the body ‘tick’ and how things work. (Sure, at this college, the Diploma course has a quarter of A&P; but not on the same level as the Degree course).

This whole "debate" thread could have been shortened with this post, however, most wont realize the wisdom until they have seen the difference between the medic mill and the CC education. The courses in red are much more important than most realize in the understanding of your prospective patients and their reasons for calling you. I believe some more respected diploma programs, some based in hospitals or CC, have additional requirements for college level algebra, A/P, and psychology.

Don't underestimate their value to you or your patients.

The whole point of my ramblings is this: While you may think that college is all ‘basket weaving 101’ and ‘music appreciation 1035’, every course I’ve taken (with the sole exception of Computer Concepts and Applications), all have some relevance to the field of EMS, and can benefit my patient and the care they receive.

These classes have their place..

Before you ask, “How is learning algebra going to help my patient?”; algebra isn’t about the actual math problem, it’s about developing your critical thinking skills…and that WILL benefit your patients!

No, the collegiate Paramedic doesn’t learn some ‘secret handshake’, nor do they teach some ‘college only skills’, but they DO give you a more ‘in depth’ understanding of WHAT we do; and WHY we do it.

This is a fabulous perspective..and very, very true. (I remember these discussions... )

Shortcuts in Nursing, Paramedic, or virtually any other vocation is a bad idea in my opinion; but being allowed to participate in personal and family health and other situations is an honor (to some of us). These individuals call YOU for help, generally when they are having a very bad day. You owe the patients, their families, and your fellow professionals to be the best caring and educated professional possible...

If you can stomach the college courses, this is the only way to go and it will set you up for furthering your education; whichever way you take it.

Remember...“You don’t know how much you don’t know.”

I think a research project would be very well suited for the paramedic curriculum. The courses I have been connected with preach the value of participating and understanding research and evidence based practice and QA, but little is done to teach this.

Dwayne means well, and obviously has an intense reverence for the profession . Keep the discussions going as long as they are informative, even if they get a bit inflammatory at times.....