Mandatory Testing

[Coheed1121]

I work for a private EMS company in Connecticut. I was recently told I need to have a ppd test done for an annual TB test. I have no problem getting the test done and plan on getting it done this week. I do have a problem being told I have no choice in the matter. Its not in our company policy, I was told it's a federally mandated OSHA regulation. I was also told I cannot refuse it under the OSHA law. I've looked online at the OSHA site and on this site too and did not find anything about it being mandatory and especially about not being able to refuse it. I called my regional OSHA office and was told that OSHA has no mandates about ppd screening. I mentioned to this to my companys training division and was told that whoever I talked to is wrong. So can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Again I'm not debating getting the screening done. I always do it and do it annually. I just don't like being told I have no choice in the matter.

[akflightmedic]

I work for a private EMS company in Connecticut. I was recently told I need to have a ppd test done for an annual TB test. I have no problem getting the test done and plan on getting it done this week. I do have a problem being told I have no choice in the matter. Its not in our company policy, I was told it's a federally mandated OSHA regulation. I was also told I cannot refuse it under the OSHA law. I've looked online at the OSHA site and on this site too and did not find anything about it being mandatory and especially about not being able to refuse it. I called my regional OSHA office and was told that OSHA has no mandates about ppd screening. I mentioned to this to my companys training division and was told that whoever I talked to is wrong. So can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Again I'm not debating getting the screening done. I always do it and do it annually. I just don't like being told I have no choice in the matter.

OSHA did try to mandate it, however now they use the CDC guidelines as their default position. The CDC strongly recommends it....

[Lone Star]

I work for a private EMS company in Connecticut. I was recently told I need to have a ppd test done for an annual TB test. I have no problem getting the test done and plan on getting it done this week. I do have a problem being told I have no choice in the matter. Its not in our company policy, I was told it's a federally mandated OSHA regulation. I was also told I cannot refuse it under the OSHA law. I've looked online at the OSHA site and on this site too and did not find anything about it being mandatory and especially about not being able to refuse it. I called my regional OSHA office and was told that OSHA has no mandates about ppd screening. I mentioned to this to my companys training division and was told that whoever I talked to is wrong. So can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Again I'm not debating getting the screening done. I always do it and do it annually. I just don't like being told I have no choice in the matter.

First off let me ask this….how old ARE you? If I had to guess, I’d put you in your very early 20’s.

I’ve seen this same “You can’t tell me what to do!” mentality on a motorcycle forum when it comes to mandatory helmet use.

Your employment with that company is not a ‘right’; it’s a privilege, which means that they don’t HAVE to give you a job. You cause too many problems or ‘buck the system’ too much, and you won’t have that privilege for much longer!

You stated that you have no problem getting the test done, and that you normally have it done annually. With that being said, what is the REAL issue at hand? Is it because your employer said you HAD to do it? If your employer stated that you HAD to wear black boots with orange toe caps and white laces, guess what? You WILL wear black boots with white laces and orange toe caps, or you won’t work there much longer!

If this were a construction site, would you still be so defiant if they told you that you had to wear hard hats and eye protection at all times while on the jobsite?

I could see it if your employer said that it was mandatory that you have your thumbs traumatically amputated to keep your job. The PPD test is a relatively painless test, and the biggest ‘inconvenience’ is having to go back to the clinic to get the results evaluated.

[Bieber]

If you've got a problem being told what to do, you're in the wrong profession, man, because EMS is pretty far down the line on the totem pole, and you're going to find out that while we have a lot of autonomy it's all granted to us by someone else, and that someone else can pretty much tell you step by step exactly what you can do and exactly what you can't do and you've got little choice but to say, "Sir, thank you, sir!"

There should be no conflict with you on this issue. TB testing saves lives. I was just reading the other day about a paramedic in one of the neighboring counties who found out he had encapsulated TB and discovered it thanks to routine TB testing. Now he's taking antibiotics for the next nine months, but that's a hell of a lot better than the alternative. It's not just about patient safety, it's about your own safety. Because I can guarantee you that's you're going to be LOVING your employers for mandating regular TB testing if you ever turn up positive, because it's going to save you from finding out the hard way.

We all live under somebody else's rules, every single one of us. There isn't a man alive who doesn't answer to someone. Fighting against your employers on principle alone will only get you so far, and you've got to pick your battles and choose the ones that are really worth fighting for. And fighting against mandatory TB testing on principle is not a fight worth undertaking. If you want to start a conflict, it had better be over something worth fighting for, otherwise you're just throwing a fit for the sake of throwing a fit.

[NYCEMS9115]

There are many things we do; not because we want to but because we're told to. Its life. The employer has every right to ask you to do things; you can refuse. If it means your job; then so be it. If you have union protection; then you can grieve it. If you don't; you can file a claim with the State Dept of Labor. You may be eligible to collect unemployment if your termination was unjust.

In the business of EMS/PHC; there will be many things you'll do that you don't want to do. You'll do it because you were told to. Being an EMT; you learned the responsibilities of the role because someone told you. Everything we do was learned at some point. Hence, it was told to you.

All the best...

[Coheed1121]

Ok thank you for missing the point of my post entirely. I don't know if you're trolling or just that woefully ignorant. I an not debating the virtues of the ppd test. I am merely questioning the legality of mandating the test and saying it is law from OSHA when all the evidence I have found says it's obviously recommended but not mandated.

[Bieber]

Ok thank you for missing the point of my post entirely. I don't know if you're trolling or just that woefully ignorant. I an not debating the virtues of the ppd test. I am merely questioning the legality of mandating the test and saying it is law from OSHA when all the evidence I have found says it's obviously recommended but not mandated.

First of all, having an attitude with people who are trying to give you advice isn't the way to make friends. Secondly, it's not mandatory. You're free to pursue employment elsewhere at any time. Did you complain about having to take a physical agility test to make sure you could safely perform the physical labors of the job? The employer sets the requisites for employment, you're under no obligation to fulfill any of them--unless, of course, you want the job.

Like I said, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. You say you have no problem getting the test, but damned if you're going to let someone TELL you to get the test done. How dare they tell you to do what you already know you should do and were going to do anyway! Do you see how silly that sounds? Are you going to be pissed off with them if they tell you to come to work prepared to run calls as well?

Finally, like AK has said, it doesn't sound like the test is required by the law, however employers are free to set their own employment requirements. Such as, you have to have your EMT. Or your paramedic. Or whatever level of training they require. Or you have to have CEVO, or PALS, so on and so forth. Just because it's not required by the law doesn't mean the employer doesn't require it.

EDIT: Added the final paragraph. Enjoy.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Bieber

[HERBIE1]

Ok thank you for missing the point of my post entirely. I don't know if you're trolling or just that woefully ignorant. I an not debating the virtues of the ppd test. I am merely questioning the legality of mandating the test and saying it is law from OSHA when all the evidence I have found says it's obviously recommended but not mandated.

The company can mandate anything they want- as long as it's not illegal. Obviously saying it is mandated by OSHA when it's not is wrong, but irrelevant. The company has no reason to lie- say it's a good idea, say that all employees need to comply, and that's the end of it. Kinda like a soldier or a fire department member(a paramilitary organization) following orders- as long as they are not illegal or immoral, you better obey them.

As you say, there is no down side for the test- except that for some, after having multiple tests over the years, false positives are possible- or at least they were, unless they changed the test.

[uglyEMT]

Ummm quick Google search...

http://www.ct.gov/dp...a=3136&q=388584 CT DPH: TB Control Program. (excerpt)The TB Control Program (Program) works in collaboration with health care providers and municipal health departments to conduct surveillance for TB disease and latent TB infection, screening, treatment, and containment activities.

And here is OSHA stance on the issue. Maybe the gentelman you spoke with didn't know.

http://biotech.law.l...sisControl.html OSHA excerpt, follow link for full explination

[Proposed Rules Department of Labor Occupational Safety and Health Administration. 29 C.F.R. part 1910, Occupational Exposure to Tuberculosis, Friday, October 17, 1997, 62 Fed. Reg. 54160–01 (1997).]

emergency medical services

Again I side with the rest on this thread, if you have no problem doing the test, if you do it anyway, then what is the problem here? The fact you were told to do it? Welcome to the world of EMS. Protocols are in place that some might not agree with but because they are we must follow them.

As you say, there is no down side for the test- except that for some, after having multiple tests over the years, false positives are possible- or at least they were, unless they changed the test.

Been there done that. Simple chest X-ray solves the problem. I have had flase positive 2 years now. I don't get the ppd in the arm anymore (have an exemption from the medical director) I just need a chest X-ray once a year. After 5 years I can start redoing the ppd. Something about resistance in the body.

Edited March 24, 2011 by UGLyEMT

[Semmelweis]

I am a little late responding to this as I just found the discussion. The issue here is personal autonomy. What we wear is different than allowing our employer to break our skin. Even the government generally needs a warrant to break our skin.

Also, the science is just not there to support this as a mandatory action. The risk of TB is still pretty low. Most hospitals and employers require this but few if none will publish their postive results. But they are really really low.

OSHA tried to mandate this but after seeking comments appeared to back off. CDC is not known for its respect of civil rights.

Now in the end, it is a minor pain with a small needle. But where does it end and where does our autonomy begin.

Sometimes it is OK to take a stand, as long as we know the facts and accept the consequences.