Won't Let 2 Females Work Together On Ambulance

[DwayneEMTP]

...So please, don't turn this into a philosophical debate about the equality of the sexes. I don't know anyone here who wouldn't agree that men and women are equal...

I loved this post except for this. To the first, Why? To the second, I believe you're wrong about that..I, as well as many, many here would argue that men and women are not equal at all...assuming that you can quantify equality with such an equation.

Dwayne

[Bieber]

I loved this post except for this. To the first, Why? To the second, I believe you're wrong about that..I, as well as many, many here would argue that men and women are not equal at all...assuming that you can quantify equality with such an equation.

Dwayne

To the first one, well it seemed like it was starting an argument for the sake of starting an argument rather than as a justified response to what someone had actually said.

To the second, you're right that men and women aren't equal in a literal sense, however in the sense that I think everyone here would agree that nobody should be disqualified from a job based solely on whether or not their parts dangle as opposed to their actual ability to do the job. Are there certain things that men will never be able to do and vice versa? Without a doubt. But for the most part, a person's ability to do a job is based on their drive, commitment, knowledge, and adaptability far more frequently than it is on whether they pee standing up or sitting down.

[HellsBells]

"Imagine you're some seedy dude up to no good wandering the streets at night looking for a victim. You see an ambulance parked on a street corner, which is not unusual in a third service or public utility model, and you know you have your target in sight. Once you walk around to the side you see a man and a woman, or a man and a man, will you walk away and look for something easier?"

What a ridiculous argument. I don't think that a two women crew presents a particularly vulnerable target. There is little chance said degenerate will be able to get one alone. If he does, she will have a radio on her person, which should provide quick access to the police.

Im not saying its impossible, but I think the typical pervert could find much easier prey then a couple ladies in an ambulance. There are plenty of dual female crews in the urban service I work for and Ive never even heard of an attempted assault in the four years I have been here.

[island emt]

"Imagine you're some seedy dude up to no good wandering the streets at night looking for a victim. You see an ambulance parked on a street corner, which is not unusual in a third service or public utility model, and you know you have your target in sight. Once you walk around to the side you see a man and a woman, or a man and a man, will you walk away and look for something easier?"

What a ridiculous argument. I don't think that a two women crew presents a particularly vulnerable target. There is little chance said degenerate will be able to get one alone. If he does, she will have a radio on her person, which should provide quick access to the police.

Im not saying its impossible, but I think the typical pervert could find much easier prey then a couple ladies in an ambulance. There are plenty of dual female crews in the urban service I work for and Ive never even heard of an attempted assault in the four years I have been here.

If it's such a crappy neighborhood , then no crew should be sitting posted there.. SCREW what some computer geek says!

When I worked in the hood of a major league getto city, we would just sort of follow the local cruisers around for protection.

I've worked with women partners that could bench press me with one arm and I'm not light.

[Lone Star]

What a ridiculous argument. I don't think that a two women crew presents a particularly vulnerable target. There is little chance said degenerate will be able to get one alone. If he does, she will have a radio on her person, which should provide quick access to the police.

Not every ambulance company will issue portable radios (hand helds) for their field crews, let alone for each member; so we shouldn't count on that as a deterrent.

Secondly, just because said employee/crew member HAS a radio, doesn't guarantee that they'll actually get a chance to use it before something 'bad' happens to them.

If it's such a crappy neighborhood , then no crew should be sitting posted there.. SCREW what some computer geek says!

What happens when you're STATIONED in those 'crappy neighborhoods'? When I worked in Detroit, I was stationed in Highland Park, Riverview and a few other 'less than desireable neighborhoods'. The only choice I had for refusing my station assignment was to 'self-terminate' my employment. Secondly, when company policy states that you WILL go where 'posted', what choice do you REALLY have?

*DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS INTENDED FOR HUMOR ONLY!

In the great debate of gender equality, it has come to light that women will NEVER be 'equal to men' until:

They can walk down the street, bald, pot bellied, belching and scratching their crotch... and still think they're 'sexy'

[wrmedic82]

This is discriminatory thinking just as much as the double female staffing...what exactly constitutes a male or female issue? Are these call outs so common that there is a need to have a male or female depending on the sex of the patient?

Are you saying that as a male I can not effectively treat a female "problem"? Are you trying to say I could not deal with an OB issue/delivery/complication, a sexual assault, bacterial vaginosis, STDs, unusual discharges, lump in the breast? What are you going to do that is any different than me simply because you have a vagina and I don't?

I can talk about and handle any of these issues with professionalism and empathy. Prehospitally or more specifically on an ambulance, the treatments will not change based on the health care provider's sex. On the flip side are you saying as a female that you could not handle ED or penile discharges or male sexual assault?

Because short of sexual organ dysfunctions or OB, there is no difference between male and female EMS issues and there is absolute zero need to have a male for male issues and female for female issues. That is one HUGE step backwards for medicine overall and an extremely narrow minded point of view.

I think she has a valid point. Take for instance the muslim culture. Did you know if a male healthcare provider touches his wife she could be killed? Granted this is the US and those actions may not be premissive per se, but for those who are dogmatic (radical islam) that may not matter much. Also if a woman goes to treat a male who's culture is that the man is in charge may hesitate, or refuse transport or treatment. It would be very callus for us to say " well fine don't go with us" and go on about our business. This also of course can or will violate the first rule of medicine do no harm. For that I do not believe her to be sexist but rather a realist.

As far as lifting goes, I hold women I work with to the same standard as myself. Yes I can lift alot of heavy patients and have throughout my career. I have also lifted people I should not have w/o assistance. So with pride and ego aside I hold them to that standard. If they cant lift they do not belong on a ambulance period. This goes for males and females alike.

[HellsBells]

To WR Medic. I get some of the islam issues you speak of. When I was on my Ob practicum delivering babys I did run into some flack over a male being present. However, I found the way you approach the situation dictates the response.

For example, if I approached the pt and asked permission to assist with the delivery, as in- hi Im the paramedic student, may I help with your delivery? They would often politely refuse me. So, I started to to simply assert myself and inform the pt that I was part of the delivery team and would be helping the doctor deliver their child. Some did still refuse me, but I was involved in a lot more deliveries after that point.

I think that the same goes for EMS response. If a muslim doesnt like the sex of the responders who show up at their door, its a shame, but in the end its their problem, not ours. I think reasonable accomidation should be made for other cultures, but if a co-ed ems team is not avaliable, then they have to be somewhat realistic in their expectations.

[akflightmedic]

I think she has a valid point. Take for instance the muslim culture. Did you know if a male healthcare provider touches his wife she could be killed?

Gee...really?? WoW! I had no clue....having spent the last 5 years of my life in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait and the UAE....simply had no idea.

Did you know that your information is incorrect? I have touched many female patients <gasp> who were Muslim. Some of them even lived. FYI, I write all of this from my hotel room in UAE before returning to Afghan in a few days.

Here is the reality...yes I can touch a female in an emergency situation or any situation WITH the husband's permission. My first encounter with this was is Florida, years before I went overseas. There are many ways to conduct the exam and while having a female present or completely performing the exam, this is not always possible and realistic expectations are maintained.

Plus the people who are extremely radical typically will not be activating EMS so this is a moot argument.

Amazing that you utilize one very rare situation to try and justify an entire staffing matrix based on outdated, sexist thinking.