HIPPA vs law enforcement

[MedicCraig]

This situation occured at our service last week, and it's been bugging me ever since. Tell me what you think. One of our crews went to a neighboring state to pick up a dementia patient from an assisted living facility and transport him back to our city for nursing home placement. Just a simple BLS, non-emergent run. After picking up the patient and being on the road back for about an hour, they were tailed by a state trooper for about 20 minutes, then pulled over. The officer was more than a little rude. He had the driver exit the vehicle and produce all the usual paperwork, then insisted that all the compartment doors be opened, which he searched.Then he opened the back doors and insisted on viewing the patients paperwork. After being detained on the side of the road for 20 minutes, they were finally released to continue the run. The driver received a warning for "following to close", but both the driver and attendant verify that no vehicle was in front of them. It's my belief that the trooper was looking for something. Since our ambulance was about 7 hours out of our area, and from another state, I guess it looked odd to the trooper. My question is, does law enforcement have the right to inspect the patients paper work (HIPPA), on a routine traffic stop? Has anyone else ever encountered this?

[island emt]

Just a guess on my part is that there have been cases in the south where a stolen ambulance was used to transport Illegal substances across several state lines. The profile of an out of state vehicle and his curiosity to see if it truly was a legitimate ambulance transport call make the scenario you gave seem likely.

That said: Showing him the pt record really doesn't violate HIPAA to the extent of an unauthorized dissemination of PT information. He was probably looking to see if you really were transporting a legitimate PT or using that as an excuse or ruse to haul drugs through his state.

You could have requested he call your base to verify why you were there and to verify your legitimacy in doing so.

The following too close was just a reason to pull the truck over and if you contested it , your crew might have ended up in kangaroo court answering to judge BUBBA, why they had done violated his laws.

If you file a complaint , be prepared for this pattern to repeat again if you ever send another truck through that area. Only next time they will find a reason to take your crew to jail and hand out fines.

BUT do you really want to risk pissing off a redneck state trooper in a case where he could have found reason to put the truck out of service and the crew behind bars?

Not saying this is right:::::: just the way it really is !

Been there, done that, got to spend a night in the Elizabethtown kentucky jail for a transgression by another company driver previously.

The jailers wife makes really good cornbread and salt cured ham! :-}

Edited March 30, 2011 by island emt

[Bieber]

Law Enforcement Purposes. Covered entities may disclose protected health information to law enforcement officials for law enforcement purposes under the following six circumstances, and subject to specified conditions: (1) as required by law (including court orders, court-ordered warrants, subpoenas) and administrative requests; (2) to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive, material witness, or missing person; (3) in response to a law enforcement official's request for information about a victim or suspected victim of a crime; (4) to alert law enforcement of a person's death, if the covered entity suspects that criminal activity caused the death; (5) when a covered entity believes that protected health information is evidence of a crime that occurred on its premises; and (6) by a covered health care provider in a medical emergency not occurring on its premises, when necessary to inform law enforcement about the commission and nature of a crime, the location of the crime or crime victims, and the perpetrator of the crime.³⁴

From http://www.hhs.gov/o...mary/index.html

Edited March 30, 2011 by Bieber

[usalsfyre]

No, unless they have a warrant. If they insisted I would them call for a supervisor immediately, and make sure their dash cam is recording.

In the meantime I'd educate the crew on appropriate action, as well as call and file a complaint with the LE agency.

Edited March 30, 2011 by usalsfyre

[MedicCraig]

Well, Island EMT, I think you hit the nail on the head. This incident occured south of Houston, where the illegal immigration and mexican drug cartels cause some problems. I heard just this past week they busted 12 illegal aliens dressed as US Marines down there. I guess the smugglers are getting creative!

My problem is, When does law enforcement have the right to view confidential patient info? The patient was not able to consent, and in this case, not involved in a crime.And I understand the situation you describe. Sometimes it's better to pick your battles, and not start a war.

[usalsfyre]

Well, Island EMT, I think you hit the nail on the head. This incident occured south of Houston, where the illegal immigration and mexican drug cartels cause some problems. I heard just this past week they busted 12 illegal aliens dressed as US Marines down there. I guess the smugglers are getting creative!<br />

My problem is, When does law enforcement have the right to view confidential patient info? The patient was not able to consent, and in this case, not involved in a crime.And I understand the situation you describe. Sometimes it's better to pick your battles, and not start a war.

They had no right to the info, whether it starts a battle or not. DPS administration would not take a kind view on the actions of this trooper when they found out the legal ramifications.

[wrmedic82]

They had no right to the info, whether it starts a battle or not. DPS administration would not take a kind view on the actions of this trooper when they found out the legal ramifications.

Just throwing this out there. How did the trooper know that the ambulance was transporting a patient vs. an illegal alien vs. a fugitive? How could he/she verify that the ambulance crew was not transporting someone that was wanted? The ambulance out-of-state deal could have been a cause for suspicion. And who knows if rescue randy did not call something in or if there was a code silver and the trooper was making sure that the elderly patient (if they were elderly) was not the one they were looking for?

I personally would comply because you really have no idea what they are looking for, nor is alot of officers going to tell you which has been my experience.

[MedicCraig]

All good points.... personally, I think I would have complied with the officers demand after I contacted management first. I have read over the laws that were linked earlier, and my interpitation of it says he can't ask for PHI in this case. After talking to my crew about this run, they still were more upset by the way the officer treated them. I believe if an officer, or anyone, wants respect, they should treat people with respect.

[usalsfyre]

Just throwing this out there. How did the trooper know that the ambulance was transporting a patient vs. an illegal alien vs. a fugitive? How could he/she verify that the ambulance crew was not transporting someone that was wanted? The ambulance out-of-state deal could have been a cause for suspicion. And who knows if rescue randy did not call something in or if there was a code silver and the trooper was making sure that the elderly patient (if they were elderly) was not the one they were looking for?

I personally would comply because you really have no idea what they are looking for, nor is alot of officers going to tell you which has been my experience.

The trooper didn't, but you can't break one law to enforce another. It's sounds like the whole stop was pretty damn shaky in the first place, and I would have declined the search request(legal and NOT probable cause), asked for a supervisor and ensured he was recording. If he refused? Dial 911 and request a supervisor as your being harassed.

Edited March 30, 2011 by usalsfyre

[paramedicmike]

The Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution reads:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I'm with USALSFYRE on this one. Refuse the search, ask for a supervisor, call the supervisor of the transport agency, and ensured that the dash cam on the cruiser was recording. If the trooper fails in any of those categories call 911 and request a supervisor.

Edited to add:

Don't forget, too, that you don't have to answer specific questions from this or any officer. You do have to produce, on demand, identification (e.g. driver's license and I'd throw in my employee ID and certification card as well). But you also have the right to not answer questions. Of course, now you have to specifically tell the officer you're not going to answer questions. But that's all you have to say... "Trooper, I'm requesting you call your supervisor to this location. I refuse to consent to a search of the vehicle and I refuse to answer any questions without either legal representation or my supervisor here."

Or something to that effect.

Edited March 30, 2011 by paramedicmike