HIPPA vs law enforcement

[Richard B the EMT]

When last I did an interstate transfer, to either New Jersey or connecticut, from my home state of New York, it was before the wide spread of cell phones, and the HIPAA laws had not yet been enacted.

As we were from another state, we didn't run emergent, followed (for the most part) speed laws, and didn't go through any red lights. I do, recall, that one time I got lost, and saw a trooper going the other way, I stopped and did turn on my Emergency beacon and flashers as a request for help. After the trooper realized we didn't have an emergency, he actually led us a part of the way to our destination.

Hmmm, anyone remember Burt Reynolds and Dom DeLouise in Cannonball Run? They used an ambulance to run the scam of a patient transport at high speed in a cross country race.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I'm in agreement with those who say, no way no how.

The patient is entitled to privacy and the trooper violated that.

I would have asked for his probably cause as to why he needed to see the paperwork. He better have a good reason for wanting to see it.

I don't buy the "he might have been looking for a wanted person or whatnot". It doesn't sound like he made himself clear and that to me is suspect that he might be on a fishing expedition.

I'd have asked that he provide me a valid reason to search my ambulance and then i probably would have allowed him but he better have a pretty good reason.

As the medic, I would have been on the phone wtih my company asking what they would allow. I'd then also be requesting his supervisor.

It all would be documented in my EMS report and reported to my superiors for further action.

In the end, if the trooper gave me good reasons, my company said go ahead, then I would have acquiesed but I would have had the support of my company in allowing the trooper to see the patients records/paperwork.

Sounds like just from this write up that the trooper overstepped his bounds.

[paramedicmike]

After the trooper realized we didn't have an emergency, he actually led us a part of the way to our destination.

That's because he'd heard about you, Richard. He wanted to make sure you were safely out of his jurisdiction.

[island emt]

I'm wracking my brain trying to remember the medic that was a member here back in the beginning who worked in the Houston area and got arrested by the cops for transporting a patient into a town where his company wasn't licensed to provide service.

Long story short, even though he was just doing his job , he did get arrested, did go to jail and ended up with a record because of it.

Do you really want to Piss off a redneck cop over a little stupidity?

There is a difference between being stopped and let go after 20 minutes and getting arrested and going to see Judge Bubba in the morning.

[paramedicmike]

I remember him. I think his name was Nate. Although, there was much more to that story than simply a spat over territory. He admitted after the fact he was a little more belligerent than he probably should have been.

ETA: Now that I think about it, he was also fighting to have the charges dropped. He stopped posting shortly after that happened so I don't know the outcome. Perhaps one of the other old timers has kept in touch with him and can fill us in?

Edited March 30, 2011 by paramedicmike

[Lone Star]

The ONLY ways the officer had ANY business viewing the patient's PCR and any pertinent patient iformation is if:

1. The had a valid subpoena, or warrant signed by a judge

2. The officer was directly involved in patient care

Since he had neither, he either had to get one or live with the fact that he couldn't view the paperwork.

If we're going to acquiesce to breeching patient confidentiality simply because some nosy cop wants to know who’s in the back of the truck, then we have ultimately FAILED at patient advocacy and failed to protect the patient’s right to confidentiality.

In the event that the officer really wanted to push things, he would have found out in very short order that he was on the loosing side of a set of serious charges.

I’ve worked WAY too hard and WAYYY too long to obtain my EMS license, and I’ll be damned and go straight to hell before I let some chucklehead put me in a position to endanger not only my job, but my professional credentials and credibility!

Part of my primary responsibilities is to protect my patient’s privacy at all costs. If I have to sit in the local hoosegow because of it, then that is something that I’m willing to do. Not only am I bound by professional ethics concerning this matter, I’m morally against sacrificing said ethics just to keep my butt out of jail; especially when facing charges that will never stand up in ANY court.

I’ll give you any and all information that law enforcement is entitled to, but anything above that; the officer will have to get a subpoena. I doubt that any judge wants to step into the legal shit storm that would ensue, as it would ultimately come back to bite him in the posterior pleats of his nice black robe!

There are many reporters who would gladly sacrifice their freedoms in order to protect their sources based on the first amendment. Why shouldn't I protect my patient with the same zeal?

When given an order to produce certain papers, we are bound by law to hand them over. Unfortunately for the officer involved, the Federal Government has decreed that the patient’s confidentiality WILL be protected more fiercely than the last grey wolf on the endangered species list.

[Richard B the EMT]

Anyone remember that cop versus EMT video from some months back?

1) LEOs have firearms, most EMS crews do not.

2) Even if found guilty in good ol' boy Judge Bubba's court, YOU are the one going to have a record, and the expense of trying to have the record expunged.

2-A) If you are in a state/provence where, when renewing your certification/license, you must declare any arrest record, until the expungement, you're going to have trouble.

3) Any interaction between LEO, FD, and EMS agencies, other than sanctioned things like boxing matches or hockey games for charity, always has the potential of starting a "battle of the badges". As I have observed over many years, these "battles" end up embarrassing the direct participants, their respective agencies, and generate negative goodwill for long periods to follow.

[usalsfyre]

That's another reason I'm asking he turn the camera on. Appropriate response here is be overly polite and non-threatening, but firm in denial. Cite the appropriate laws. Remind him that if you show him the charts your each liable personally for any resultant fines. Which can be substantial.

If this is on video, they're going to have a VERY difficult time making this stuff stick, considering they were in the wrong in the first place.

[NYCEMS9115]

A Police Officer has the authority to search your vehicle; if there is probable cause. If he felt the Ambulance was stolen or you guys were not EMS personnel; its the right thing to do. Check it out and he did. What if the vehicle was stolen and you guys were human or drug traffickers; bringing the goods into or out of the US? Then the Trooper would have been a hero; received a merit citation. He did what he had to do. I'm glad it turned out fine. All the best....

[paramedicmike]

"What if" does not constitute probable cause.