Union and EMS

[mrfiher]

Are there EMS departments that are union and what union and are thet good for EMS ? DO they get us better pay, benefits, holidays, vacation time, better scheduling and is the benefit worth the cost?

[tniuqs]

And who else dares to speak for you "same scene, same pay" as the LEO and FF do ?

http://www.naemt.org/ ..... LOL.

[Kiwiology]

I could not even fathom being an Ambulance Officer without the union

[Dustdevil]

And who else dares to speak for you "same scene, same pay" as the LEO and FF do ?

Lame.

Any union worth joining would be arguing, "twice the education, twice the pay!"

They may accomplish something in third world countries, but I have yet to see them do anything but LOSE jobs in the US.

[tniuqs]

Lame.

Any union worth joining would be arguing, "twice the education, twice the pay!"

They may accomplish something in third world countries, but I have yet to see them do anything but LOSE jobs in the US.

Do they have the right to organize labour in turd world counties ?

Egypt?

Syria ?

Yemen ?

Nigeria ?

You know the "other" counties demanding Democracy ?

[HellsBells]

Now that the province of Alberta is under the purview of the provincial government, all EMS has been forced into one union. Prior to that change I have worked for both union and non-union services here. I didn't find any particularly huge difference between wages, benefits, and work place satisfaction between the two.

However, its seems that Canadian EMS, on average, enjoys better wages and benefits than our US counterparts. I'm not sure if that has to do with increased educational standards, a public health care system, or both. But, I don't think it is a result of strong unionization of practioners, as there has been no consistant organization of EMS across the country.

British Columbia, under CUPE organization has not faired well. At least not for members without significant seniority. New hires in that province are subject to inconsistant work schedules, poor benefits, and postings in various regions that may lead to long drive times to work locations.

That said, having no personal experience with USA's EMS system I can any speculate on the conditions found within that system.

[tniuqs]

Do you not believe that without unions in place we would have faired anywhere as well, more of a model to follow, I believe with the takeover EHS the rural guys/gals are NOT complaining today.

I can remember the very day that EAA (Edmonton Ambulance Authority) took over and we were finally paid for working 14 hours instead of being paid 10 on nights.

A huge failure for Employment Standards which have not changed in 25 years the "day rater" concept is the next big hurdle to overcome. I believe that competition for unionised or non unionised positions but supply vs demand is a bigger factor.

Agreed BC CUPE is an epic fail, everything is based on seniority rarely merit or education, a shame really.

[Bieber]

A national union would be invaluable to EMS. Just look at the IAFF or the ANA and what it has done for their constituents not only professionally but with regards to wages and their public image. EMS could become so much more with the help of a strong national organization, however there are a number of obstacles that stand in the way of such a union and EMS.

The first and foremost obstacle is apathy. We in EMS simply don't give a shit about our jobs. We really don't. The vast majority of paramedics out there go out, put in their hours, and go home. If they're younger, they bridge to nursing quickly and get the hell out of EMS before it eats them alive, and if they've been in it for a while, they're just biding time till they can retire. The job's not taking them anywhere anyway, so why bother to put any effort or heart into it?

Additionally, it's that same apathy (amongst other issues which will be addressed below) that keeps us from increasing our educational standards. Why the hell is anyone going to go and get their Bachelor's in a relevant field if they plan on staying in EMS? It isn't going to change what treatments their protocols allow, and it isn't going to raise their pay any, so who gives a shit?

The other obstacle between not only EMS and a national union but also between EMS and raising their educational standards or expanding their treatment options are opposing unions. The IAFF doesn't want to raise educational standards, in fact they seem to want the exact opposite of that. But there are so many fire based EMS services that what unions do exist (NAEMT, for example) are too afraid to take a strong stance on the matter. They won't advocate non-fire based EMS because many of their constituents are fire-based EMTs and paramedics. And any strong pro-education, anti-fire EMS union is going to meet a lot of resistance not only from the IAFF but at worst opposition from the NAEMT and at best an apathetic response by them. Furthermore, increased educational standards and increased treatment modalities (treat and release, release and refer) will be opposed by the ANA whose job is to protect nurse's jobs, including home health nurses.

Local unions are great for individual services, but on the national standard don't make much of a difference. Furthermore, in this anti-union age we seem to be entering, it's going to be difficult to convince certain cities and counties to go along with them depending on the local politics. Nationally, anti-union folks would be easier to tackle by appealing to the common man's sympathy towards and respect for civil servants and emergency responders; and by making this a national issue it would be easier for all services to be represented by the political big wigs who can push the issue more efficiently than perhaps your local EMS director.

I don't know, guys. It's a complex issue and I am doubtful that I will ever see a strong, national, pro-EMS union in my lifetime. We would need a strong voice who can reach paramedics all across the country and somebody with the charisma, knowledge, and political savvy to convince all of the numerous dissenters that such a union is going to actually benefit them and will improve their jobs. And considering there are numerous national and state-based associations that have historically failed to do much for EMS, getting people to believe that this hypothetical union would be any different would be quite a task indeed.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Damnit Bieber, that's the biggest crock of crap I've ever read, NO wait, that response was Spot on. I'm just joshin ya!!!!!

So the issue is this, just like you said - apathy.

Lack of opportunity for advancement - breeds apathy

No incentive to get more education because of the limited opportunity for advancement - breeds apathy

Get rid of the two above and you will see a great improvement in our industry

But seriously, how many EMS systems have any room for upward movement?

How long do you think you'll last in a small service with a Bachelors degree or masters degree?

[ambodriver]

Most of this board is anti union. I'm not sure why.

Unions have helped me obtain good pay, pensions, and job security. I am municipal.

Private ambo companies with no unions make shit pay and have lousy benefits.

Just the way it works around here. I'm telling it how it is.