Discrimination Against Gays

[HotelCo]

Several openly gay men and women at my service. One is fairly flamboyant, but I can't speak to how it affects patients, since I've never worked on shift with him.

I have no problem working with a gay/lesbian. As long as he doesn't hit on me, i say bang whatever gender you want.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DwayneEMTP]

... I don't like any action that is "in my face", but at the same time is it fair for us to ask them to hide who they are ?

Yeah, to a certain extent it is I think. I've spent a lot of time working with gays, both 'flamers' and not, have good friends who are gay and my previous supervisor and soon to be partner is a lesbian. I only mention those things to try and give context to my opinion.

If my sexual preference (not implying that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, but I do believe that the exhibition of it is) is Dom/Sub, or S/M should I then be allowed to come to work in a spiked collar? If I have infant fantasies should I then be allowed to come to work an speak only in baby language?

Much, if not all, in my opinion, of the 'flaming' gay behavior is not an effect of being gay, but an affect meant to push the fact that they are 'different' in my face and force me to accept them 'for who they are, no matter what." Bullshit, that just isn't going to happen. But you know what? Come to work talking about 'all the bitches I fucked', or fart, or belch the night away in my ambulance and I'm going to shut you down too. The whole concept of 'you have to let me be me' is ridiculous and unhealthy for all involved.

In this world it can be hard to get by sometimes...if you're blessed to have found love, no matter who you've managed to find it with, then I'm truly happy for you. But use that as an excuse to talk baby talk, walk with an exaggerated swish in your hips, or find that you're unable to speak without out girl'ing Marilyn Monroe (speaking of men of course) and now you're just bullshitting and being unprofessional. There are appropriate professional ways to speak and conduct yourself in a professional environment. I don't believe that being gay, or straight, or black or white, or older, or younger, male or female, should relieve you of the burden of doing so, and I refuse to disrespect you by accepting a lower standard of behavior, to treat you like a child because you are gay.

We live in a world where being different.... having been molested as a child, being addicted and in a 12 step program, sometimes, being gay, has come into vogue. Each thing makes you different, removing your need to actually produce to be considered special. Unfortunately, I still live in the world that believes that you need to bring good things, produce something, even if it's just good energy, and I'll consider you special...the rest is just a bunch of rah rah drama.

I want everyone to be happy, and fulfilled. If I walk in on my male partner when he's changing, gay or straight, and see him standing in a lacy pink thong....I could give a shit. Walk in on my female partner and see her hairy armpits and cammo men's underwear (Not exactly sure how to stereotype lesbian underclothes)? Ditto. People are different and varied...that's what makes them interesting to me...but put any of those interesting variables out and demand that I validate them, or where patients have to tolerate them, and I'll do what I can to shut you down and push you back into you lane.

I'm disappointed that the OP has chosen such a shallow demographic for the article, as well has chosen not to participate in this conversation. But alas, as often happens in sub groups, it appears s/he is looking for ammo to fulfill a predefined agenda as opposed to write an actual, informative article. And that's too bad. It tends to make the entire gay EMS community appear too ignorant to know the difference, and I know that not to be true.

I would love to have a gay partner, the same as I've loved to have a black partner, and a tiny/beautiful woman partner, and a big fat partner as well as others of course. They have had unusual challenges in their lives...their lives seem to have more perspective than many lives lived 'normally' or without such challenges. They tend to be more tolerant, less dramatic, able to love more without being needy...I just seem to 'get' them..and that's who I want to spend the biggest half of my life, the professional part, with. The rest is just set dressing.

Dwayne

Edited to make a very small grammatical change. No change in context.

Edited May 15, 2011 by DwayneEMTP

[hatelilpeepees]

Wow Dwayne, well said, I cant argue with anything you have said.

[flamingemt2011]

Hey Hey Everyone, lots of Love !!! Thanks to all who have PM'd me with your stories. Hatelilpeepees (love the name) that is exactly what I am talking about. It is shame that only Rock Hudson or Tom Cruise closet gays can get hired in our industry. Dwayne, I appreciate your statements and you are correct, but unfortunately our industry does not live by that standard. Before I came out of the closet, here are some of the behaviors I witnessed at a major metropolitan Fire Department.

a) Men continuously talking about their dicks, their sex acts they had recently enjoyed, and they had porn on the TV every night.

Men continuously making gay jokes, grabbing each others ass, pretending to be gay in their speech and actions (joking around).

c) EMS crews male/female having sex in the station or in the ambulance.

d) EMS/Fire crews performing sexual acts in the parking lot with their dates or spouses at the time.

e) One station's initiation was to paint the testicles of rookies with hydrant paint, against their will.

f) I would say atleast 50% of the married crews were having extra-marital affairs.

Not saying this happened every day, but this and similar activities happened fairly routinely. Then after I came out of the closet, my Captain asked me to go outside when I called my lover, because my conversation (that they could hear in the day room) made the men uncomfortable. Mind you I never said anything sexual, but because they knew I was saying I love you or I miss you to a man, it freaked them out. So Dwayne, I have no problem living up to the standard you described, I just ask that you get all of the straight people to observe it first. Thanks.

[DwayneEMTP]

... Dwayne, I appreciate your statements and you are correct, but unfortunately our industry does not live by that standard. Before I came out of the closet, here are some of the behaviors I witnessed at a major metropolitan Fire Department....

Ahhhh, there is part of the problem, you're talking hosemonkeys, I thought we were talking career professional EMS. Sorry my friend, if you're going to hang around with knuckle draggers, you're gonna get pooped on. Do I believe that all Fire fighters are knuckle draggers? I don't. But any that did what you mention below, or allowed such a thing to happen in a professional dept certainly fit the bill.

...a) Men continuously talking about their dicks, their sex acts they had recently enjoyed, and they had porn on the TV every night.

Men continuously making gay jokes, grabbing each others ass, pretending to be gay in their speech and actions (joking around).

I have seen some pretend to be effeminate, but what behavior exactly do they mimic to pretend to be gay? Unless you are claiming that irritating over the top effeminate behavior from a man is gay behavior?

...c) EMS crews male/female having sex in the station or in the ambulance.

d) EMS/Fire crews performing sexual acts in the parking lot with their dates or spouses at the time.

e) One station's initiation was to paint the testicles of rookies with hydrant paint, against their will.

f) I would say at least 50% of the married crews were having extra-marital affairs.

...Then after I came out of the closet, my Captain asked me to go outside when I called my lover, because my conversation (that they could hear in the day room) made the men uncomfortable. Mind you I never said anything sexual, but because they knew I was saying I love you or I miss you to a man, it freaked them out.

And what prevented you from telling him to go and fuck himself? Were you still allowed to participate in this job if you were openly gay? Why on earth would you want to work in a profession that is populated grossly by ignorant children? Is it to make a point? I'm not opposed to doing it for that reason..but am curious.

...So Dwayne, I have no problem living up to the standard you described, I just ask that you get all of the straight people to observe it first. Thanks.

Well, I can assure you, as the spokesman for the entire heterosexual population, that we'll get right on that! :-)

I'm grateful for you returning to the conversation, but I'm curious. I've been to, maybe, a few dozen gay bars in my life...(I was an Arabian horse trainer in CA) and had an awesome good time, every time. But shouldn't I be allowed to get a job in a gay bar? And if I have a right to get a job in a gay dominated field, should I then have the right to insist that everyone begin to act hetrosexual, just like me? No lisping, everyone must walk with a pronounced John Wayne swagger, no drinking those freakish girlie drinks? (poking fun here of course while trying to make the point...) (See how open minded I am? Leaving that segue just hanging there?)

The reason I ask is none of your examples above appear to me to be anti-gay. They are just idiotic heterosexual behaviors in an environment known for idiotic heterosexual behaviors that you have chosen to insert yourself into, right? I'm not claiming that you don't have a right to be there, just how far the right to be accepted should go?

One of my best friends when I was in Afg was a big gay medic. Loved and respected him, and others, at the very least respected him. He never really had any issues. And this is friggin' Afghanistan! As you might guess a pretty macho environment. I'm guessing that he could fit in anywhere, despite his lisp and giant friggin' nipple rings. I'm not sure why so often it seems that gays seem to choose radical behaviors that they know will alienate them, and then complain about that alienation? Of course this is a general question, as I don't know you, and despite your user name,but though that you might have perspective.

I did notice as well that you chose not to address the criticism about choosing a narrow, biased demographic only for your article? Put out the call only to those that would have an unhappy opinion. You claim that my attitude is uncommon...how do you know? It truly is going to be a pity party isn't it? And not a serious attempt at educational journalism? You sound intelligent, and funny, and kind....I hope that I am wrong about the article.

Come into my truck acting like a dramatic clown, and you will not be well received. But that isn't anti gay behavior, that's anti-irritating child behavior. Sit in my truck and sincerely tell your mate that you love him and I'll be just as happy for you as I am for any of my other friends.

Dwayne

Edited to fix a typo. Not contextual changes.

Edited May 15, 2011 by DwayneEMTP

[flamingemt2011]

Dwayne I would go out of my way to get you that job in a gay bar, but we both know you would never apply for that job out of fear of what your friends and relatives would think. But with that being said there is still discrimination in many jobs: You would have a hard chance gettting a job as a waiter at Hooters, you wont find many american teenagers working in a chinese or mexican restaurant, you will rarely see an obese or ugly woman working as a receptionist or TV anchor, and you will rarely find a gay male emt or medic working for a municipal EMS / Fire/ or Police Department, we are relegated to the 2nd tier services, and have no chance of advancement. And in "right to work" states, we can be fired for just being gay, whether we are flaming or not.

[DwayneEMTP]

Dwayne I would go out of my way to get you that job in a gay bar, but we both know you would never apply for that job out of fear of what your friends and relatives would think. But with that being said there is still discrimination in many jobs: You would have a hard chance gettting a job as a waiter at Hooters, you wont find many american teenagers working in a Chinese or Mexican restaurant, you will rarely see an obese or ugly woman working as a receptionist or TV anchor, and you will rarely find a gay male emt or medic working for a municipal EMS / Fire/ or Police Department, we are relegated to the 2nd tier services, and have no chance of advancement. And in "right to work" states, we can be fired for just being gay, whether we are flaming or not.

Ahh...now you show YOUR bias by claiming to know what I would or wouldn't do or what would or wouldn't make me ashamed in front of my friends and family. What is it with angry blacks and/or gays believing that "we" can't possibly know what "your" lives are about, but you know exactly what it's means to be "us?" I wouldn't hesitate to take a job in a gay bar, though I notice that you ignored the question about the gays now having to conform to my non gayness? That seems to make it clear why you want only the biased, narrow demographic.

I believe most here, many of who know me in 'real life' would tell you that you are mistaken about your impression of me.

I SHOULD have a hard time getting hired at hooters as they have a marketing plan and I retard their chances to succeed with it. Ditto white kids in Chinese/Mexican restaurants, ugly men/women on TV, but I don't know why a gay would have a hard time getting hired at any of those services you mentioned? I'm confident that I've never been asked on paper, or in an interview what my sexual orientation is. Why would you or any other homosexual be treated differently pre-hire?

Thank you for your thoughts..I look forward to them...

Dwayne

[mobey]

Dwayne I would go out of my way to get you that job in a gay bar, but we both know you would never apply for that job out of fear of what your friends and relatives would think. But with that being said there is still discrimination in many jobs: You would have a hard chance gettting a job as a waiter at Hooters, you wont find many american teenagers working in a chinese or mexican restaurant, you will rarely see an obese or ugly woman working as a receptionist or TV anchor, and you will rarely find a gay male emt or medic working for a municipal EMS / Fire/ or Police Department, we are relegated to the 2nd tier services, and have no chance of advancement. And in "right to work" states, we can be fired for just being gay, whether we are flaming or not.

There it is.... the end of the thread.

Poor me

I get discriminated against because of my weight. Oh no... I am not overweight, I am very underweight!

At 6'3 and 145lb, I cannot enter a room for more than 15min without someone making a "skinny" joke (Which I then follow with a fat joke at thier expence, immediatly followed by an invitation to continue poking fun at eachother's weight - or drop the subject. Funny how overweight people get so offended yet underweight have to endure a lifetime of punishment)

OK, a little rant there

My point is, although I am underweight, I act as society expects me too. I do NOT walk around in shirts that are too short to show off my tiny waist, nor do I continually bring up how small my appetite is, or that the average adult can put thier hands around my abdomen and touch thier fingers!

I do what it takes to "fit in", no I do not hide my body with huge clothing or anything like that... yes I do take my shirt off at the beach. But if I do not want people to "be offended" and I use that term loosly, by my weight, I do not demand they agnowledge it on a daily basis.

Put the person first. Are you a Gay Paramedic, of a Paramedic whom is gay?

[Lone Star]

I can promise you that my employer will not hire an out of the closet gay male, which is ironic since Atlanta has one of the largest gay populations. I don't like any action that is "in my face", but at the same time is it fair for us to ask them to hide who they are ?

I don't think anyone is asking them to 'hide who they are', as much as it's being suggested that it be 'toned down a few notches'.

Like I said in a previous post, I really don't care if my partner is a GBLT individual,but is it really NECESSARY to flaunt it do dramatically; especially when you already KNOW that it's going to have negative consequences? I mean it makes about as much sense as attending a PETA/ASPCA/GREENPEACE meeting wearing leather and fur while eating a 'cow burger'...and then complaining because you weren't welcomed with open arms....

[Dustdevil]

...and you will rarely find a gay male emt or medic working for a municipal EMS / Fire/ or Police Department, we are relegated to the 2nd tier services, and have no chance of advancement.

Uhhh... no. They go into nursing instead. I guess they're just smarter than you.

And in "right to work" states, we can be fired for just being gay, whether we are flaming or not.

You can be fired for anything anywhere. Tis the American way. If you think the IAFF gives a shyte about gays, you've never been a member.