Mimi1199 Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 Hi all, I introduced myself in the meet and greet forum but had a question concerning school. I plan to take the EMT course this fall. My question is, would I do better taking the Human Anatomy & Physiology classes first, or just jump right into the course itself. I realize that it would give me a running start for the EMT course, but my problem is time. I'd like to not waste anymore time in pursuing my dream. Any help at all would be appreciated.
flamingemt2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 I do not see much reason for taking an A&P course for EMT school, but I would suggest one prior to Paramedic school. I think you should get into EMT, make sure you like it, then decide what other courses will benefit you.
TylerHastings Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 While I do not feel that an A&P course is necessary I feel like I would have and most other providers would have benefited from having one under the belt before beginning the EMT course. I don't feel like there is ever anything wrong with taking more courses than required. If it were me I would take it. 1
Lone Star Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 I do not see much reason for taking an A&P course for EMT school, but I would suggest one prior to Paramedic school. I think you should get into EMT, make sure you like it, then decide what other courses will benefit you. I vehemently disagree with your statemtent! EMT-B is the basic foundation of EMS. It teaches the most basic life support techniques and practices. Not understanding HOW and WHY the body works like it does is akin to putting someone to work installing electrical outlets in new houses without any understanding of how electricty works, and the difference between AC and DC currents! Granted, as an EMT-B, there isn't a great deal that the EMT can actually do, but it WILL have an impact on WHY we do what we do in the field. Not all EMS systems relegate the EMT-B to being a driver who humps the gear for the Paramedic. Some systems will actually dispatch an EMT-B crew for 9-1-1 calls. Since this happens, it's imperative that the EMT-B be given all the tools possible to be able to be in a better position to keep their patient from dying enroute to the hospital. Additionally, being educated in Anatomy & Physiology will help the EMT-B better recognize when the patient's needs exceed the EMT-B's ability to manage the patient's illness/injuries; and therefore activate an ALS response sooner. Mimi, if I had my way about it, I would require EVERY EMT-B, EMT-I and EMT-P to have an Associates Degree AT MINIMUM, before being able to enter the field of EMS. My suggestion to you is to enroll at a reputable college and obtain at least an Associates Degree prior to trying to break into the EMS field. With the explosion of these 'patch mill schools', having an associates degree as an EMT-B will set you apart from the hordes of mediocre providers that these schools traditionally flood the market with! Additionally, having already obtained your Associates Degree will be of invaluable benefit as you move up the 'food chain' to Paramedic. I further reccommend that you not enter the field as an EMT-B in the first place, but hold out until you obtain your Associates Degree in Paramedicine. In no way am I bashing EMT-B's, (I was one for 12 years myself), but I also know first hand how limited they truly are! Yes, putting dreams and plans on hold while you get your degree is disappointing and frustrating to say the least, but by doing so; you will be able to provide better care for your patients that call you, which is what we should be doing in the first place!
flamingemt2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 You are entitled to your beliefs, and obviously she will not be harmed by higher education, but I have to ask: If you were King you would require an Associate's Degree, Right ? If education is so important why not demand a Master's Degree as the minimum ?
paramedicmike Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 You are entitled to your beliefs, and obviously she will not be harmed by higher education, but I have to ask: If you were King you would require an Associate's Degree, Right ? If education is so important why not demand a Master's Degree as the minimum ? Actually, for paramedic level providers I don't think a masters degree is a bad idea. Make paramedic education fall in line with PA education and I think EMS could do some good for both the community and health care nationwide. With regards to the A&P class for an EMT-B student, any student would stand to benefit from the education gained from the class. That will do a couple things. It'll put the student far ahead of her peers in terms of being prepared and understanding the information. It'll also set the stage for continued learning at a higher level than what her peers are capable of doing. Both of those, taken together, stand to benefit the student in the long run.
Lone Star Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 You are entitled to your beliefs, and obviously she will not be harmed by higher education, but I have to ask: If you were King you would require an Associate's Degree, Right ? If education is so important why not demand a Master's Degree as the minimum ? Based on the observation that there are few places (at least around here) that even offer an Associates Degree in Paramedicine, let alone a Bachelors or higher; one must be pragmatic about what the minimum educational requirements should be. Should there be greater educational requirements for entry level EMS? Without a doubt! Not only will it make the student more 'marketable', but it will also benefit the patients that the student will encounter and treat.
TylerHastings Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) I vehemently disagree with your statemtent! EMT-B is the basic foundation of EMS. It teaches the most basic life support techniques and practices. Not understanding HOW and WHY the body works like it does is akin to putting someone to work installing electrical outlets in new houses without any understanding of how electricty works, and the difference between AC and DC currents! Granted, as an EMT-B, there isn't a great deal that the EMT can actually do, but it WILL have an impact on WHY we do what we do in the field. Not all EMS systems relegate the EMT-B to being a driver who humps the gear for the Paramedic. Some systems will actually dispatch an EMT-B crew for 9-1-1 calls. Since this happens, it's imperative that the EMT-B be given all the tools possible to be able to be in a better position to keep their patient from dying enroute to the hospital. Additionally, being educated in Anatomy & Physiology will help the EMT-B better recognize when the patient's needs exceed the EMT-B's ability to manage the patient's illness/injuries; and therefore activate an ALS response sooner. Mimi, if I had my way about it, I would require EVERY EMT-B, EMT-I and EMT-P to have an Associates Degree AT MINIMUM, before being able to enter the field of EMS. My suggestion to you is to enroll at a reputable college and obtain at least an Associates Degree prior to trying to break into the EMS field. With the explosion of these 'patch mill schools', having an associates degree as an EMT-B will set you apart from the hordes of mediocre providers that these schools traditionally flood the market with! Additionally, having already obtained your Associates Degree will be of invaluable benefit as you move up the 'food chain' to Paramedic. I further reccommend that you not enter the field as an EMT-B in the first place, but hold out until you obtain your Associates Degree in Paramedicine. In no way am I bashing EMT-B's, (I was one for 12 years myself), but I also know first hand how limited they truly are! Yes, putting dreams and plans on hold while you get your degree is disappointing and frustrating to say the least, but by doing so; you will be able to provide better care for your patients that call you, which is what we should be doing in the first place! With all due respect gramps I did not say I felt it was not useful I stated that it was not neccessary granted I based my opinion off the backwards state of CA where I live but still....I took and I feel like I was a better provider because of it. To the OP I do feel like it would be beneficial to you to take said course. Based on the observation that there are few places (at least around here) that even offer an Associates Degree in Paramedicine, let alone a Bachelors or higher; one must be pragmatic about what the minimum educational requirements should be. Should there be greater educational requirements for entry level EMS? Without a doubt! Not only will it make the student more 'marketable', but it will also benefit the patients that the student will encounter and treat. I firmly agree that there should be a stricter requirement for paramedics. As you will see in some of my other posts on the education horse I am now a firm believer in the degree program thanks to the likes of Dwayne Dustdevil AKFlightmedic, LoneStar and Mike. However @Flaming....funny we seem to have locked horns on this topic as well. Anyway one must be very pragmatic about what the education requirements are around the US seeing as I am enrolled in my local community college to get all of my pre reqs however I must transfer somewhere out side of my local area to a place like LA riverside or San Diego in order to get my degree and complete my training. Edited May 22, 2011 by TylerHastings
Dustdevil Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Hi all, I introduced myself in the meet and greet forum but had a question concerning school. I plan to take the EMT course this fall. My question is, would I do better taking the Human Anatomy & Physiology classes first, or just jump right into the course itself. I realize that it would give me a running start for the EMT course, but my problem is time. I'd like to not waste anymore time in pursuing my dream. Any help at all would be appreciated. Your dream? What is your dream? If your dream is to have an EMT card in your wallet, then go to the three-week course in California, If your dream is to be a competent medical provider, that won't look stupid when asked the most basic questions about the human body that you are supposed to be a certified "technician" of, then spend this summer taking both semesters of A&P. You NEVER get a second chance to build a foundation. It's not something you can just go back and do later. If you get ahead of your foundation from the start, you will forever be less of a medic than you could have been. Anyone who tells you different is ignorant, and possibly just plain stupid. 1
donedeal Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 To enroll in an A&P course at almost any college you need to first have taken general bio and general chemistry as pre-requisites. Traditionally these are all 8 credit two course sequences spanning 2 semesters. These provide the foundation to understand the concepts in A&P and these courses are not to be taken lightly. The amount of time and effort one will put into a general bio and general chem sequence, which also make up some of the pre-reqs required for medical, dental, physician assistant school, blows the length of an emt basic course out of the water. While I certainly see the benefit to having all ems providers take these courses, I don't think the cost outweighs the benefits. The basic provider doesnt need to know the detailed concepts you learn in bio, chem and A&P. Beefing up the general gross anatomy overview provided in an emt basic class is sufficient given the scope of care of an emt. There is no diagnosing, minimal pharmacology or long term care involved at the emt level, but rather immediate intervention based on recognized signs and symptoms. You see blood, you control bleeding, you see short of breath, you provide oxygen...there are no procedures at the basic level that require you to know the breadth of information covered in these courses. We are working at a technician level and receiving pay that accompanies a technician level. That level of education doesnt jive with the pay or scope of care....and then you have an argument of which comes first....but I don't see municipal services already strapped for cash shelling out salaries that coincide with that level of education. Most importantly-- few and far people have the cells and motivation to handle the hard science workload and those that are successful are becoming the higher level providers mentioned above-- not emts making 10 bucks an hour. You can't place that kind of requirement on entry into the ems field or you'll quickly run out of providers.
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