Where to begin

[paramedicmike]

Paramedicmike, I would have to agree with what you said generally. I remember as a child the first time I went to Burger King. We were poor and couldn't afford to eat out, so I had no concept of what "eating out" was or what a Whopper tasted like, although I had obviously eaten hamburger. So I can admit that since I do not have a Master's Degree, I can not speak intelligently about people with Master's Degrees. But that wasn't the question posted. The question was should someone who is not even in our field yet take extra-curricular courses before she begins EMTB school ?

I will phrase it a different way ---- Suppose I think I want to be a Nurse, and I think I might want to be a Prison Nurse, BUT I have NOT taken my first core class or even been accepted in Nursing School, would you recommend that I spend money on "criminology" classes before I start my core or Nursing classes ?

I'll type it out again since it seems your reading comprehension has failed you for a moment.

Education, no matter the circumstances or subject matter, is *never* wasted.

So, aside from your cheap shot at Ruff, if one thought that a criminology or sociology or psychology course would better help prepare him/her-self for a job as a prison nurse then my answer is yes. Take the classes.

To take it another way, if someone wanted to take a class because s/he had an interest in the subject matter and wanted to learn more, no matter the current career path, then it is still not wasted money or effort.

You people (generally speaking) seem to think that education is limited in scope and application. You are wrong. In fact, the more you learn the more you can apply what you've learned across the board both in your career path and in life in general. As Ruff has noted, and I can relate as I have a similar story, education is undertaken in phases. Things change. Interests change. Jobs change. Hobbies change. Life changes. Learning as much as you can is a life long process. Each step builds upon the other. If you (again, generally speaking) feel that education is wasted simply because you believe it doesn't apply to what your career path is then you, as a student, are the failure. Not the education itself.

[hatelilpeepees]

Now if you wanted to be a nurse, even a prison nurse why would you even consider criminology courses. That's an absurd comment you made and I can only think that you are trying to be insultive.

I gave my reasons why I did what I did yet you turn them around and make fun of them.

I feel the courses I took were the right thing for me.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

I see the correlation, if you think you are going to work in a prison as a nurse, then criminology courses are appropriate even though not required by the Nursing School, just as A&P is related to EMTB, but not required by the school.

Mike, if you are talking about enrichment of the individual then you are right, all education is a good thing. But when it comes to real-life career advice, in this economy, I think you have to be more pragmatic. If I were 18 and your daughter, would you recommend that I look at residential construction or real estate sales as a career right now ? Yes, taking a real estate course may make me smarter about home sales, but it would not be a wise career move. I don't think most of the posters are saying education is a bad thing or that it is not necessary, I think they are just saying that NOW is not the time for her to take the class.

[flamingemt2011]

Now if you wanted to be a nurse, even a prison nurse why would you even consider criminology courses. That's an absurd comment you made and I can only think that you are trying to be insultive.

I gave my reasons why I did what I did yet you turn them around and make fun of them.

I feel the courses I took were the right thing for me.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

Ruff, I have no idea how you interpreted what I said as an insult towards you, I have never insulted anyone in this forum, and if you read it again, you will see I was addressing PmdcMike, and my scenario had nothing to do with anything you have done in your life. And hate's interpretation is exactly what I meant.

[DwayneEMTP]

Ruff, I didn't see the cheap shot. Though the example given may not have been perfect, it seemed to me to have been meant to illuminate the point.

Mike, of course I agree with you that no education is wasted, in general. But It seems that you may have lost sight of the context of this discussion. Should someone with no exposure to EMS take college level anatomy and physiology prior to exploring and EMTB course? Sure if they have no family/work obligations and money is no object.

Now, you and I seem to live different lives, or have different experiences with higher education. The two and a half years I spent becoming a paramedic were spent almost completely separated from my family. I worked, and studied, and went to class, and then worked and studied some more. Often going weeks with less than 4-5hrs/night of sleep, and often going with no sleep at all. I would see my son just one or two hours a week, and Babs only when in bed or she was feeding me. Do I love my education? I can't even begin to explain the positive changes that have come from it, and my career in EMS. Would I again subject my family to that separation, to the significant expense, so that I could get a higher education in Astronomy because I'd discovered an interest in a new telescope? Not on a bet, unless that interest showed me a direction that I may want to pursue with more vigor.

There is no question that you are an intelligent and educated person, but would you truly take that time and money away from your family for something that would almost certainly not show any type of financial security/return? I would not. Though I certainly would not judge you negatively if your answer is different.

Some of us are saying that it wasn't realistic advice for someone to spend a year in college prior to investigating an interest of theirs, which I believe is valid for most family people, yet all you seem to hear is "higher education is stupid."

As for those without an education explaining to those that education is stupid? Yeah, I friggin' hate that....But you continue, in this conversation it seems, to put me in that class, and I don't believe that I belong there.

All responses meant with respect of course. I think it's been a great conversation.

Dwayne

Edit: Yikes, a bunch of us posting at the same time. I posted without seeing the posts above so the redundancies are accidental.

Edited May 29, 2011 by DwayneEMTP

[paramedicmike]

The context of the OP was a question surrounding whether or not taking an A&P course would be a waste of time in terms of pursuing her "dream". The answer is no. An A&P course is not, would not and will not be a waste of time. This is true especially if pursuing an EMT cert is her "dream".

If taking the class is viewed as a waste of time then this person has already demonstrated that she's interested in cutting corners. This is not what EMS needs more of. We already have enough lazy, unmotivated and uneducated people involved in playing anchor to EMS. Either do it right or don't do it at all. And doing it right includes taking the A&P class.

As for those without an education explaining to those that education is stupid? Yeah, I friggin' hate that....But you continue, in this conversation it seems, to put me in that class, and I don't believe that I belong there.

Then you, my friend, are reading something that isn't there.

[Lone Star]

I will phrase it a different way ---- Suppose I think I want to be a Nurse, and I think I might want to be a Prison Nurse, BUT I have NOT taken my first core class or even been accepted in Nursing School, would you recommend that I spend money on "criminology" classes before I start my core or Nursing classes ?

First off, let’s consider the relevance of a criminology course for nurses. Unless the nurse is going to be also working in an investigative capacity, or even in the capacity as a prison administrator, I can’t see the relevance of the criminology course being even remotely tied to the education and duties of a prison nurse.

Wouldn’t the nurse be better served by focusing on the medical aspect of the nursing education, after all; that’s why he/she would be in the prison in the first place…?

I think this is a poor example at best, and shouldn’t have been used to illustrate your point. One of my core classes was ‘Computer Concepts and Applications’, which focused on knowing the difference between system software and program software, and the applications of Microsoft Office. Does this have a direct bearing or influence on the medical aspects of what I’ll be doing as a Paramedic? Not in the slightest!

I’ve had people tell me that the course is required because I MIGHT be using a computer to complete an ‘e-PCR’, and it might malfunction. My thought process is this: If the device that I’m using to complete the ‘e-PCR’ malfunctions, it’s not my place to attempt to repair it; that would be a task better suited to those with the IT or computer repair education. If the device malfunctions, then the next logical step would be to complete an ‘old fashioned’ hard copy PCR.

All of the other courses I’ve taken to date can be justified as being beneficial to what any Paramedic does or will experience in the field.

The context of the OP was a question surrounding whether or not taking an A&P course would be a waste of time in terms of pursuing her "dream". The answer is no. An A&P course is not, would not and will not be a waste of time. This is true especially if pursuing an EMT cert is her "dream".

If I read the thread right, the OP hasn’t balked at increased education, rather; it’s certain members that feel that it would be a ‘waste of time for the EMT-B level’.

...if one thought that a criminology or sociology or psychology course would better help prepare him/her-self for a job as a prison nurse then my answer is yes. Take the classes.

To take it another way, if someone wanted to take a class because s/he had an interest in the subject matter and wanted to learn more, no matter the current career path, then it is still not wasted money or effort.

You people (generally speaking) seem to think that education is limited in scope and application. You are wrong. In fact, the more you learn the more you can apply what you've learned across the board both in your career path and in life in general. As Ruff has noted, and I can relate as I have a similar story, education is undertaken in phases. Things change. Interests change. Jobs change. Hobbies change. Life changes. Learning as much as you can is a life long process. Each step builds upon the other. If you (again, generally speaking) feel that education is wasted simply because you believe it doesn't apply to what your career path is then you, as a student, are the failure. Not the education itself.

This is doubly significant, simply because it not only highlights the importance of education, but it also illustrates my original statement that EMT-B is the basic foundation upon which the higher EMS license levels are built upon.

And whoever said EMTB is the foundation of EMS ---- sorry, nowhere close.

The concepts of patient care, medical/legal/ethical and other facets of EMS start in the EMT-B classes, and are enhanced and expanded in each subsequent class you take as you advance ‘up the food chain’.

As one’s scope of practice and responsibility increases, it’s tied back to the basic concepts that were taught in the EMT-B class.

EMTB is a bandaid that was forced on our industry so Fire Departments could get in EMS at the lowest cost possible. It is an abomination to our industry. It would be like creating a course to become a Doctor that is one year in length, because there are not enough Doctors.

Do you have proof this is where the EMT-B license level originated from? Not all of the failings within the EMS system and its structure can be attributed to the Fire Service…

[hatelilpeepees]

Yes, I watched its implementation. EMTB was created because of the perceived shortage of Paramedics and EMTs in rural areas, Fire Departments pushed for it, as they no longer wanted to send their employees to EMTI school as it was too long, they wanted a quick-course so they could say they had trained first responders on their engines.

EMTI is the foundation of the EMS House, EMTB was the fourth bedroom that was added on 40 years later.

Edited May 29, 2011 by hatelilpeepees

[DwayneEMTP]

...The context of the OP was a question surrounding whether or not taking an A&P course would be a waste of time in terms of pursuing her "dream"...

Ahhh...point taken and conceded. I guess I should have reread the original post before claiming to know it's intent... That does change the context. Beginning the quest for your dream under prepared is certainly a sad and frustrating path to take.

...Then you, my friend, are reading something that isn't there...

Yeah...I do that sometimes... :-)

Dwayne

[fakingpatience]

Hi all, I introduced myself in the meet and greet forum but had a question concerning school.

I plan to take the EMT course this fall. My question is, would I do better taking the Human Anatomy & Physiology classes first, or just jump

right into the course itself. I realize that it would give me a running start for the EMT course, but my problem is time. I'd like to not waste anymore time in pursuing my dream. Any help at all would be appreciated.

Sorry for jumping in here so late. Just another idea, why don't you consider taking the collage A&P concurrently with your EMT course? Depending on what kind of student you are, and you other obligations, it should be very doable to take Anatomy and Physiology at the same time as EMT.

As far as the education discussion, I took my EMT class when I was 3/4 of the way done with my Bachelors in Social Work. I finished the last year of my BA, and then decided I wanted to work as an EMT. I don't look at all the time and money spent getting by BA as wasted though. The background knowledge I learned while earning it, and even some of the major-specific classes I have taken have proven very useful in my job as an EMT. I just finished a Survey of A&P class, as I am preparing to enter paramedic school in the fall, and while the survey was good background knowledge, I wish that I had taken the more in-depth A&P 1 and 2.

[Dustdevil]

Not all of the failings within the EMS system and its structure can be attributed to the Fire Service…

That's true. Many can be attributed to volunteers too!