Just Plain Ruff Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 So you see no value in learning A&P outside of a health care profession? While you had no way of knowing this, the classes I listed were required classes as part of the college degrees I have earned. Some were, in fact, core courses. Most were specific to degrees. So are you still going to argue that it was all wasted since I'm not doing a job related to what the degrees were? If you choose to continue to argue that point, are you willing to argue that the vast majority of people out there with college degrees who do not work in the field specific to their degree have wasted all that time and money? Me education resume is as follows Paramedic Bachelors of Arts - Administration of Justice Masters Degree in Project management I work in the IT field where I NEVER do administration of justice, and I rarely do project management and I've only done paramedic while on a plane but I do use my experience in paramedic/hospital ER work all the time. Have all those courses and education been for nothing since I'm not really doing any of my degree work in my current job? Were those classes wasted?
Lone Star Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 No, because most of the classes you listed are what are considered core courses that are needed for any degree, so it does not hurt you if you take it and then change majors. Unfortunately A&P is pretty much limited to healthcare, so I have to agree with flamer on that one. Once she gets through EMTB and passes, then she should take other health care courses. Since the OP has an interest in attending an EMT-B class (a health care field! ), one would logically conclude that a 'health care specific course' like Anatomy & Physiology would be an obvious requirement. Since EMT-B is the very 'foundation' that your EMS education is built upon, again, the need for A&P at this level is a 'no brainer'... Additionally, how many people have started their careers in EMS, and then moved on to working in the hospitals and such as nurses, PA's and even Doctors? I find it ironic that there are many people who bristle about being referred to as 'ambulance drivers', yet do not advocate higher educational requirements. How can we expect to become recognized as true health care professionals if we do not stand united about increasing our educational requirements for EMS beyond the bare minimum standards that are in place today? Almost every RESPECTED healthcare provider profession requires an Associates Degree as the minimum requirements for employment, yet EMS still wants to hold their patient's lives in their hands with minimal education and a mere certification.... Don't you find it 'odd' that the following information is true? NAIL TECHNICIAN The Nail Technician program is a sequence of courses that prepares students for careers as Nail Technicians. The program emphasizes specialized training in safety, sanitation, state laws, rules and regulations, nail diseases and disorders, skin and nail care, and work ethics. The curriculum meets state licensing requirements of the State Board of Cosmetology. Program graduates receive a Technical Certificate of Credit in Nail Technology. 114 Admissions Requirements: Must be at least 16 years of age. No high school diploma or GED is required. Minimum test scores for regular admission: COMPASS: Reading – 49; Writing – 15; Pre-Algebra – 21 ASSET: Reading – 33; Writing – 31; Pre-Algebra – 32 NUMBER COURSE NAME CREDIT HOURS COS 100 Introduction to Cosmetology Theory (5) COS 112 Manicuring and Pedicuring (3) COS 117 Salon Management (4) COS 118 Nail Care I (7) COS 119 Nail Care II (9) TOTAL CREDIT HOURS (28) EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN Our mission is to provide quality training and education to our students. The field of EMS is one of excitement and constant change. As a graduate of our program, the student will be highly skilled and ready to meet the challenges presented in the pre-hospital environment. Admissions Requirements: Must be at least 18 years of age. A high school diploma or GED is required. Minimum test scores for regular admission: COMPASS: Reading – 70; Writing – 23; Pre-Algebra – 26 ASSET: Reading – 38; Writing – 35; Pre-Algebra – 35 Must be current on immunizations before clinical rotation begins EMT Basic Level The Basic EMT certification level has been reintroduced by the State Office of EMS to address primarily the needs of fire departments to meet NFPS requirements for the training of firefighters. Students who successfully complete the course will be eligible to take the National Registry Basic EMT Examination and receive certification at the basic level. NUMBER COURSE NAME CREDIT HOURS EMS 1101 Introduction to EMT Profession (4) EMS 1103 Patient Assessment for the EMT (2) EMS 1105 Airway Management for the EMT (2) EMS 1107 Medical & Behavioral Emergencies for the EMT (3) EMS 1109 Assessment & Management across the Lifespan for the EMT (2) EMS 1111 Trauma Emergencies & WMD Response (4) EMS 1113 Clinical Applications for the EMT (1) EMS 1115 Practical Applications for the EMT (2) TOTAL CREDIT HOURS (20) How can you expect to be considered a COMPETENT healthcare provider and QUALIFIED to treat life threatening injuries and conditions when your education is LESS than that required to take care of someone's nails? How can you be taken seriously as a 'health care professional' and assist with medications with such a MINIMAL education? * http://www.savannahtech.edu/assets/Catalog.pdf Pages 106/113 (Both courses listed above are for the 'Certificate Level) 2
Just Plain Ruff Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 The reason for so much more ed than emt. Remember, you have someones nails in your hands, that's so much more important than having someones life in you hands. How many times have you heard from a little old lady that she can't go to the er because her hair doesn't look good? Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 1
uglyEMT Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 LOL yup we have less training then a beautician. That was actually what my precptor in school said on day one... "So you all understand what is ahead of you, after this class you will be thrust upon the world a Medical Technician. You will be assumed to have the knowledge to save lives, treat injuries, and be the one at the center of an emergency that knows what to do. All this in less time then your barber or manicurest(sp) had to go through. So to be clear hair and nails are more important in the eyes of the State then you with someones life. By the end of this course you will know just enough to kill someone." It resounded in my so much I remeber it verbatum. That is why I try and take as much education in as I can. I am not just talking CEUs. I am talking lectures, classes, expert training details, ect. I am an advocate for better education, I want us to be seen in the same light as other healthcare professionals. We need a paradigm shift from the top to facilitate this, but as long as the ones in charge want to make it "easy" to fill the ranks our educational requirements will still be geared twords the lowest common denominator. EMT Basic Level The Basic EMT certification level has been reintroduced by the State Office of EMS to address primarily the needs of fire departments to meet NFPS requirements for the training of firefighters. Ahem... point proven. It is apparent that after you go through Basic and still want to do the right thing YOU need to step up and do the work yourself. Not just the 48 CEUs to maintain the liscense but actually go and forge ahead with college level courses and educations. Wish things were different but alas they are not. 1
Lone Star Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 It resounded in my so much I remeber it verbatum. That is why I try and take as much education in as I can. I am not just talking CEUs. I am talking lectures, classes, expert training details, ect. I am an advocate for better education, I want us to be seen in the same light as other healthcare professionals. We need a paradigm shift from the top to facilitate this, but as long as the ones in charge want to make it "easy" to fill the ranks our educational requirements will still be geared twords the lowest common denominator. The best way to help force that 'paradigm shift' is by taking all of the educational opportunities aavailable and still clamor for more...maybe by showing the initiative to become even better educated than they require will serve as a impetus for them to 'raise the bar' and stop catering to the 'lowest common denominator'....
tniuqs Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) OMG: Frankly I can't believe we are actually having this conversation. No solid background in A+P, Bio, Math, Chemistry, for any level of health care provider is a recipe for perpetuating old wives tails and medical myths, is stupid a new disease in Paramedicine too ? Might just as well go back to the " standard First Aid course Ambulance Attendant / funeral parlour operator days I guess. Edited May 26, 2011 by tniuqs
HERBIE1 Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Since the OP has an interest in attending an EMT-B class (a health care field! ), one would logically conclude that a 'health care specific course' like Anatomy & Physiology would be an obvious requirement. Since EMT-B is the very 'foundation' that your EMS education is built upon, again, the need for A&P at this level is a 'no brainer'... Additionally, how many people have started their careers in EMS, and then moved on to working in the hospitals and such as nurses, PA's and even Doctors? I find it ironic that there are many people who bristle about being referred to as 'ambulance drivers', yet do not advocate higher educational requirements. How can we expect to become recognized as true health care professionals if we do not stand united about increasing our educational requirements for EMS beyond the bare minimum standards that are in place today? Almost every RESPECTED healthcare provider profession requires an Associates Degree as the minimum requirements for employment, yet EMS still wants to hold their patient's lives in their hands with minimal education and a mere certification.... Don't you find it 'odd' that the following information is true? NAIL TECHNICIAN The Nail Technician program is a sequence of courses that prepares students for careers as Nail Technicians. The program emphasizes specialized training in safety, sanitation, state laws, rules and regulations, nail diseases and disorders, skin and nail care, and work ethics. The curriculum meets state licensing requirements of the State Board of Cosmetology. Program graduates receive a Technical Certificate of Credit in Nail Technology. 114 Admissions Requirements: Must be at least 16 years of age. No high school diploma or GED is required. Minimum test scores for regular admission: COMPASS: Reading – 49; Writing – 15; Pre-Algebra – 21 ASSET: Reading – 33; Writing – 31; Pre-Algebra – 32 NUMBER COURSE NAME CREDIT HOURS COS 100 Introduction to Cosmetology Theory (5) COS 112 Manicuring and Pedicuring (3) COS 117 Salon Management (4) COS 118 Nail Care I (7) COS 119 Nail Care II (9) TOTAL CREDIT HOURS (28) EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN Our mission is to provide quality training and education to our students. The field of EMS is one of excitement and constant change. As a graduate of our program, the student will be highly skilled and ready to meet the challenges presented in the pre-hospital environment. Admissions Requirements: Must be at least 18 years of age. A high school diploma or GED is required. Minimum test scores for regular admission: COMPASS: Reading – 70; Writing – 23; Pre-Algebra – 26 ASSET: Reading – 38; Writing – 35; Pre-Algebra – 35 Must be current on immunizations before clinical rotation begins EMT Basic Level The Basic EMT certification level has been reintroduced by the State Office of EMS to address primarily the needs of fire departments to meet NFPS requirements for the training of firefighters. Students who successfully complete the course will be eligible to take the National Registry Basic EMT Examination and receive certification at the basic level. NUMBER COURSE NAME CREDIT HOURS EMS 1101 Introduction to EMT Profession (4) EMS 1103 Patient Assessment for the EMT (2) EMS 1105 Airway Management for the EMT (2) EMS 1107 Medical & Behavioral Emergencies for the EMT (3) EMS 1109 Assessment & Management across the Lifespan for the EMT (2) EMS 1111 Trauma Emergencies & WMD Response (4) EMS 1113 Clinical Applications for the EMT (1) EMS 1115 Practical Applications for the EMT (2) TOTAL CREDIT HOURS (20) How can you expect to be considered a COMPETENT healthcare provider and QUALIFIED to treat life threatening injuries and conditions when your education is LESS than that required to take care of someone's nails? How can you be taken seriously as a 'health care professional' and assist with medications with such a MINIMAL education? * http://www.savannaht...ets/Catalog.pdf Pages 106/113 (Both courses listed above are for the 'Certificate Level) Just wow.
Lone Star Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Just wow. And still people wonder why I fervently advocate higher educational requirements for entry level EMS...and go absolutely rabid when someone suggests that more education isn't necessaary, because EMT-B training is more than 'adequate'...
flamingemt2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Yes Ruff, I would say that was a tremendous waste, if you spent that many thousands of dollars on degrees you are not using, but its your money, or atleast I hope it was.
DwayneEMTP Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Yes Ruff, I would say that was a tremendous waste, if you spent that many thousands of dollars on degrees you are not using, but its your money, or atleast I hope it was. Yeah, I have to agree. Unless you have/will use those degrees to enable you to be more viable in the workplace then I would certainly have never advised you to spend a ton of money on degrees that you believed would hold little to no value to your direction in life. Of course now, I am speaking of common men like me, and many others here. For this discussion 'common' to be defined as one that finds college level time and expense to be a significant burden. Why did you sacrafice that time away from your family and the money away from retirement/college funds for no return unless you are fabulously wealthy? And if you should be so, you will find that you have little in common with many of us here. Should I ever hit the lotto, which I don't play so would guess would be unlikely, it is my intention to do little with the rest of my life besides fishing and taking chemistry, psychics and psychology classes. Would that then be a waste? I don't think so. Both would apply to making me more valuable to the autism community as well as make me more intellectually healthy. But I've not won the lotto, and it's my belief that without making what I consider unreasonable sacrifices for my family, those things are out of my reach at this time. I believe that when we advise people to take Bachelor level classes before considering EMT B level courses that we don't help them, but instead convince them that we simply have no real idea what it means to have to struggle for those educations. That is not help, it's simply pompous rhetoric in my opinion. I've started businesses without taking BA/MA level courses. I took a flying lesson to see if I would like it without first becoming an airline pilot. I fathered a child without first obtaining a degree in child development. Was that optimum? Of course not. But is it more realistic to believe that I should go into debt to simply investigate an interest? To suggest that AAS courses should be mandatory before even dipping ones toes into the EMTB world, considering the way that it is used today, and being a cert that we know will almost certainly never be used by the owner is awesome. But to chastise someone for not taking "Peoples Lives!" more seriously is nonsense. Peoples lives will rarely if ever be hung in the balance based on EMTB education. How often is that even true with EMTP? Do I wish that AAS was a minimum standard for EMS? Sure. But until it is then I believe that counseling people to do what's right is great, but to chastise them for not spending thousands of dollars to get an education that will likely give them an $8-$10/hr job is arrogant and unrealistic. We have to make the changes that we can without chasing people from the advice that they need...For every person that tries to convince them that education is important they'll have 15 hosemonkeys telling them that it's ridiculous and a waste of time. That it's experience and machismo that's vital, education is just one of the silly hoops that heroes are forced to jump through. There are two very real camps in my experience where education is concerned. And those that advocate for it are the significant minority. I believe that this person talking to the fireman neighbor, or EMTB cousin and giving the advice given here will be laughed at, welcomed to the 'realistic camp' and likely be lost forever as an 'education recruit.' We need to hold onto the advice seekers as long as we can. And be careful to give advice that's realistic in the real world...Or so I think... Dwayne Since the OP has an interest in attending an EMT-B class (a health care field! ), one would logically conclude that a 'health care specific course' like Anatomy & Physiology would be an obvious requirement. Since EMT-B is the very 'foundation' that your EMS education is built upon, again, the need for A&P at this level is a 'no brainer'... And yet you've been in EMS for over 10 years without earning any of those degrees, or in fact passing any of those classes, right? I would like to think that I have a brain, limited and pickled as it may be, and yet I disagree... Please explain how your vehement "no brainer' opinions are not arrogant and hypocritical given your personal EMS history. We really need to pull this thread back into the 'no bullshit' zone... Dwayne Edited May 27, 2011 by DwayneEMTP
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