Where to begin

[Just Plain Ruff]

Dwayne and flaming

Bachelors was first - thought I wanted to be a cop so I felt a bachelors would make me a better cop. That was in 1990

Paramedic came next - played paramedic for off and on 18 or so years

Realized I didn't want to be a medic forever so I went and got the masters degree because at the time I was already working in the IS field and was doing some project management work so I got the masters degree in project management and now I just got a job in florida putting all that wasted money on project management courses to use. I guess in the end it wasn't wasted money after all.

Three days ago it might have been but now, it seems to be fate working or something like that.

I don't consider any of the classes I have taken to have been waste of money.

Having seen EMS and making 35000 per year to working computerizing emergency rooms making 3 times what I was making as a medic, I can honestly say that my education has all been worth it.

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Dwayne, correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you been one of those who have strongly advocated for at least an associates degree on this site?

Have you now changed that stance?

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else here...

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[Lone Star]

And yet you've been in EMS for over 10 years without earning any of those degrees, or in fact passing any of those classes, right?

I would like to think that I have a brain, limited and pickled as it may be, and yet I disagree...

Please explain how your vehement "no brainer' opinions are not arrogant and hypocritical given your personal EMS history.

We really need to pull this thread back into the 'no bullshit' zone...

Dwayne

You know, when I was taking the position that a college educated Paramedic wasn’t any better than one who learned to be a Paramedic in a hospital based program…you, Dust, AK and a whole host of others busted my chops over it.

Now that I’ve actually reversed my original stance, and have taken the courses that will make me a better provider; you want to bust my chops again for advocating your original stance! You can’t have it both ways!

As an EMT-B, I thought I had EMS at that level by the balls; simply because when my then Medical Director came in to do a ‘guest lecture’, every scenario he threw at me, I was able to hand back with all the right treatments in the right places. Did this make me a ‘super provider’ because I knew what to do and when to do it because the ‘book said so’? Hardly!

Now that I’ve actually taken the very classes that you and others have said were needed, I’ve come to realize how horribly WRONG I was to ever think that I was an ‘outstanding provider’. I’ve not only cheated myself but I’ve done a great disservice to every patient I’ve treated in all those years!

You busted my chops for resisting higher educational levels, you DON’T get to bust ‘em again because I’m actually advocating higher educational requirements!

You and I have had conversations about how inadequate the EMS educational requirements really are, so why attempt to beat me down because I’ve changed my stance and become an activist for the advancement of EMS from simply a ‘job’ to a ‘profession’?

You want me to come out and say it? Here’s goes:

When I was an arrogant EMT-B and thought that I knew all I needed to know, I WAS WRONG!

Just because I was wrong in my thinking, doesn't mean that I haven't learned the errors of my ways and amended my thought process along the way....

[DwayneEMTP]

...You want me to come out and say it? Here's goes:

When I was an arrogant EMT-B and thought that I knew all I needed to know, I WAS WRONG!

Just because I was wrong in my thinking, doesn't mean that I haven't learned the errors of my ways and amended my thought process along the way....

Amen brother. Though, unfortunately you seem to have come to a place where you believe that if I disagree with you in any way that I'm 'busting your balls.' That's not the case.

I felt that you were really hard on the OP, who has never been in EMS for not seeing the obvious, 'no brainer' need for those classes despite you not seeing them in the 10 years that you were a basic. Illogical, right?

I love the attitude of the post that I quoted from above. It just didn't seem to me to be the same attitude that you were responding to the other posters with. Having been that arrogant, shithead basic, shouldn't you then be more able to empathize with them instead of criticize? It took you 10+ years to come to your feelings on this..can't we give others a few weeks as noobs?

My main point was, lets not kick those in the balls that make decisions other than what we would consider optimal when they don't have the exposure or education to make any decisions at all.

I couldn't be prouder of you and your progress...I would just like to see you use it in a mentoring capacity, and you can't do that if you alienate those that come for advice..

Dwayne

[hatelilpeepees]

Unfortunately Ruff, I think you just made the case for the other two by disclosing your history. Imagine when you were THINKING of becoming a cop, and you went to "copcity.com" and asked for advice, and someone told you that if you are going to get into law enforcement, you have to have a masters in criminology, and you did that. Years later, and a few job transitions, it is obvious that some IT courses would have been better than those criminology courses. The criminology courses have absolutely no use to you in the IT field.

And whoever said EMTB is the foundation of EMS ---- sorry, nowhere close. EMTB is a bandaid that was forced on our industry so Fire Departments could get in EMS at the lowest cost possible. It is an abomination to our industry. It would be like creating a course to become a Doctor that is one year in length, because there are not enough Doctors.

Edited May 28, 2011 by hatelilpeepees

[paramedicmike]

I'm inclined to think that if one doesn't have the education then one isn't in a position to say if the education is wasted, useless or otherwise.

[DwayneEMTP]

I'm inclined to think that if one doesn't have the education then one isn't in a position to say if the education is wasted, useless or otherwise.

I can see where that is true if one has no education, but with exposure to higher education do you truly feel that we have no idea of it's value?

Dwayne

[paramedicmike]

I can see where that is true if one has no education, but with exposure to higher education do you truly feel that we have no idea of it's value?

Dwayne

Judging by some of the posts in this discussion? Yes. I truly feel that many have no idea of the value of the education they've received whether they use it directly in their career or not.

ETA: Upon further reflection on this particular topic, not only do I feel that many don't have any idea of the value of their education, I think there are several who don't have the education yet feel compelled to belittle something they don't have. This is a common problem in EMS and unfortunately it's attitudes like that that help keep us down.

There is always something that can be taken from any educational experience and be used in some practical manner. This can be done even if the education has nothing to do with the career of the individual in question.

Education, no matter the circumstances or subject matter, is *never* wasted.

Edited May 29, 2011 by paramedicmike

[Just Plain Ruff]

Unfortunately Ruff, I think you just made the case for the other two by disclosing your history. Imagine when you were THINKING of becoming a cop, and you went to "copcity.com" and asked for advice, and someone told you that if you are going to get into law enforcement, you have to have a masters in criminology, and you did that. Years later, and a few job transitions, it is obvious that some IT courses would have been better than those criminology courses. The criminology courses have absolutely no use to you in the IT field.

True but remember that this progression of education was over 20 or so years so at each distinct stage of my education the courses were NOT wasted education. True I didn't become a cop but knowing that people with bachelors degrees are more marketable than those without, a bachelors never hurts.

I give these examples as a progression, not an imperative but I am of the mindset that basic science and math classes are important but to insist that emts go and get chemistry and advanced classes to me is an absurd idea. Until emt becomes a degree program then maybe additional hours in class focusing on a&p and why things happen and forwhat reason would be better spent.

Besides, unless emts are given an expanded repertoire of things they can do (and I in no way advocate this based on current education programs), then what truly will requiring a&p and other advanced classes do to help the emt when they can't do any advanced skills. Most of the emts I know either drive to and from the calls or are transfer crew members.

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[flamingemt2011]

Paramedicmike, I would have to agree with what you said generally. I remember as a child the first time I went to Burger King. We were poor and couldn't afford to eat out, so I had no concept of what "eating out" was or what a Whopper tasted like, although I had obviously eaten hamburger. So I can admit that since I do not have a Master's Degree, I can not speak intelligently about people with Master's Degrees. But that wasn't the question posted. The question was should someone who is not even in our field yet take extra-curricular courses before she begins EMTB school ?

I will phrase it a different way ---- Suppose I think I want to be a Nurse, and I think I might want to be a Prison Nurse, BUT I have NOT taken my first core class or even been accepted in Nursing School, would you recommend that I spend money on "criminology" classes before I start my core or Nursing classes ?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Now if you wanted to be a nurse, even a prison nurse why would you even consider criminology courses. That's an absurd comment you made and I can only think that you are trying to be insultive.

I gave my reasons why I did what I did yet you turn them around and make fun of them.

I feel the courses I took were the right thing for me.

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