EMT-B calling himself a 'Medic' in Indiana

[chbare]

Most of the pharms I work with are PharmDs but none of them want to misrepresent themselves to pts. Just because you have a doctorate degree (we won't even go into the quality of these programs, or lack thereof) does not mean you should represent yourself as a physician in a healthcare setting. By that reasoning the hospital CEO who has a doctorate level degree should call himself a doctor. In general, physicians do not hold a monopoly on the term doctor but in the hospital, absolutely they should. It's pretty much the same as EMTs calling themselves paramedics.

Or, if I happen to have a Ph.D. in Persian rug history, I should also be called "doctor" in the clinical setting. Also, more food for thought: The term EMT paramedic has been removed following the NSOP changes. A paramedic is no longer even considered an EMT. If only educational requirements would show said changes, yet that is a different discussion for a different day.

Take care,

chbare.

[azemt2007]

I haven't posted in a while and I can't change my screen name for the life of me without starting a new account apparently. Anyway, after reading through this topic, I thought I'd reply. I have to agree with a lot of what Dwayne was saying. I worked hard for my credentials and I am very proud of them. I don't think it is appropriate for anyone to use a title they have not earned or worked for. An EMT is an EMT and a Paramedic is a Paramedic. Again, if we would stick to the proper use of the titles and terms, the public would understand the difference. It is making someone think something about you that is not true. Additionally, if told to the wrong person when talking about a call or something you did, you could be in trouble if someone decided to turn you in for something you weren't truly qualified to do.

Aside from that, we have the problem within the EMS community itself of not making anything clear for anyone. The titles change yearly and what we are supposed to be calling ourselves is not correct for any length of time. For instance, I am certied in 2 states, and licensed in another. Of the 3, I am called a paramedic in 2, and an Advanced EMT in the other. With these discrepencies, it's no wonder the public can't figure out what to call us. I do agree that EMS is usually considered the red-headed step-child of the fire service and most people just call us the "ambulance people" or simply "the paramedics." But we should have enough respect for our brothers and sisters in EMS (since we are the lowest on the food chain usually in the first responder world) to call each other by appropriate titles and represent ourselves correctly. Will I go off on an EMT if he/she calls him/herself a "medic?" Probably not, but if they were to do it blatantly to get more credit, then hell yeah.

Stay safe gang

[Richard B the EMT]

My brother is a Doctor of American History, and is referred to as "Dr. B" on the University of North Dakota campus, but would never dream of misrepresenting himself as an MD. He has told me that, even though I'm "only" an EMT-B, that I have more medical knowledge than he does.

That "only" was my commentary, not Dr. Al B's words.

[MetalMedic]

(Edit, not directed at you MM for your screen name, but certainly so if you do so off of the forums. The difference being that we do know who you are, where you're at, and hopefully, where you're going. Not so with the uninitiated. If they ask, take the time to explain it to them and then perhaps they will make different decision concerning EMS when it comes time to vote next time.)

I just re-read what I wrote and realized it didn't come off the way I intended it. 99% of the time I refer to myself as an EMT, but on scene don't always correct people when reffering to me as a "medic" as I usually have other things on my mind. When I have people beg me for drugs for "pain" in the back of the ambulance I explain that I don't have the ablity to do so. A lot of people don't know what EMT's are, so I usually explain that I'm a Medic (not paramedic) which usually clarifies it for a lot of people. It seems that there is a general misconception among the general population that EMT's and Paramedics are one in the same.

Anyway I hope that my first statement was clear that I don't ever misrepresent myself, but based on what is happening on scene I don't/can't always take the time to clarify the differences, especially when all my uniforms clearly show my level as EMT-B.

-MetalMedic

Edited April 15, 2012 by MetalMedic

[DwayneEMTP]

Older thread MM, but I'm actually happy to see it come back to life. I'm curious if there are any new thoughts on this subject given a little time and distance...

My opinion remains the same at this point...

We often criticize the inability of the general public to push for logical, intelligent decisions regarding prehospital EMS yet fail to educated them on the choices that they've already made.

Any moment that we allow misconceptions to pass are moments missed towards being able to move prehospital EMS forward as a profession. And that should be frowned upon.

[J306]

Last year we had an incident which clearly illustrates the reasons why EMTs/PCPs EMT-A's/ICPs must not refer to themselves as "Paramedics" or "Medics." We had a single BLS unit covering three reserves in Northern Saskatchewan with no backup for an hour and a half where there was an EMS service (also the nearest hospital) with EMT-As/ICP's in the neighbouring province, Manitoba. We were on a transfer to the hospital and had just dropped off our patient when dispatch informs us that there had been a MCI of 8 patients. 3 of which were critical.

Being an hour and a half away, the RCMP and nurses had to respond to the scene and bring the patient's to the clinic where they would attempt to stabalize then mede-vac them to Manitoba. We request a unit from Manitoba to respond with us and proceed to the local clinic where a 19 y/o female patient is suffering from a head-injury, in junctional escape rhythm and currently seizing. We get there and the Manitoba "EMT-A/ICP" introduces himself as a Paramedic.

At this point, not knowing what level this particular individual actually can provide, he steps in and takes control and begins calling drugs from the nurses (which arn't in his scope to give) and asks for a combitube..I question his choice in a combitube and why he isn't going for the intubation equipment and he responds that "this way is better" and proceeds to secure the airway device.

The girl ended up dieing and I ended up taking down the providers name and reporting him to the emergency response co-ordinator who filed a report to the college of paramedics for misrepresentation and malpractice. As far as I've been told, his file is still under investigation.

Bottom line is that if a provider misrepresents him/herself, it provides unrealistic expectations of what skills can be done. In this case, the nurses heard "Paramedic" and associated him with the skills and care level they believed ACP's could perform. It's not right, and this behaviour has to be stopped.

[systemet]

Older thread MM, but I'm actually happy to see it come back to life. I'm curious if there are any new thoughts on this subject given a little time and distance....

Well, seeing as you asked...

At the risk of irritating some of the physicians on the forum, the title "Doctor" is not restricted to those who've completed an undergraduate or graduate M.D. There's a similar level of academic rigor and personal suffering that goes into obtaining a PhD. I can't speak to PharmDs or DNPs, but I would imagine these are also very well educated people. If someone has worked hard enough to earn one of these degrees, then they have an equal right to the respect that should or shouldn't come with it.

I can understand the need to differentiate between someone who is a medical doctor, or even for individual MDs to identify what step of fellowship training they're at, or what specialty fellowships they've completed. But it seems the reasonable thing to do here, would be to require any DNP, PharmD, PhD, etc. to identify themselves clearly when conversing with patients. If someone is talking with a Genetic Counsellor with a PhD, or a psychologist, it's absolutely appropriate for that person to be identified as having completed a doctoral degree, and to be called "Dr.". But it's also vital that such people know and respect the limits of their training, and refer patients to the appropriate medical specialists when conversations enter areas where they're not qualified to dispense advice.

I would argue further that the title "Dr.", or the idea of calling someone "Dr. Brown", or so forth, is antiquated and places an unnecessary barrier between the physician and the patient. I remember one of the ER doctors I respected most walking up to the wife of a STEMI and saying "Hi, I'm Andy, I'm your doctor, I just want to tell you that we've got a few things we need to do quickly, and a couple of questions I need to ask you, but if you can be patient for a few minutes, I'm going to come back and explain what's going on and answer all your questions, ok?". This left a lasting impression.

[ERDoc]

The DNP is a joke and does not deserved to be called a doctor in any setting. Taking a bunch of online courses should not allow you to qualify for a doctorate degree. I do agree with you that anyone else who has earned a doctorate degree should be able to call themselves doctor. PharmDs are some frigging smart guys and gals. I disagree that they should be doing this in the clinical setting however. The term doctor in a clinical setting has come to mean an MD or a DO. It is the expectations of the pts that when they hear doctor, that is who they are talking to. Even if someone further identifies themself, the pts don't hear it. "I'm Dr. Jones, the nurse practitioner taking care of you." What they hear is, "I'm Dr. Jones, blah blah blah." It has nothing to do with egos in the clinical setting (except on the DNPs part) and everything to do with the pt's expectations and understanding

[Arctickat]

Last year we had an incident which clearly illustrates the reasons why EMTs/PCPs EMT-A's/ICPs must not refer to themselves as "Paramedics" or "Medics."

I don't believe that this is a case of the Practitioner being mistaken for a qualification that he was not, but more of him misrepresenting himself. I see no problem with everyone who has completed PCP, ACP, or CCP training being called a Paramedic, so long as they don't represent themselves as a higher level of training than they have.

Look at doctors for example. They're all called doctors, but some have a higher degree of training than would others. If a General Practitioner were to conduct a heart transplant without taking the training to be a Cardiologist he would be misrepresenting himself, but both a GP and a Cardiologist are doctors. Why can't a PCP call himself a Paramedic when it is in his title?

As to the PHd statement, this reminds me of the Paramedic Program in Edmonton 20 years ago. They had to replace the head of the program, who was also responsible for being the medical director for the students, therefore being a doctor was a requisite. 18 months after they hired the new program head the administration discovered she was not a medical doctor, but rather had a PHd. She was fired on the spot and the school had her charged with impersonating a physician. I heard a rumour though that the case was dismissed because the school actually didn't specify that she had to be a Medical Doctor....just a Doctor.

[ERDoc]

I agree that there is a difference between actively representing yourself as a different level and just not correcting someone when they make the mistake. Here in the US, paramedic implies a certain level of training so for an EMT to call him/herself a paramedic is purposely misrepresenting themselves. As for the doctor example you gave, in the US a doctor is a doctor and as such by law can do any procedure. It is up to the hospital to make sure that the doctor is properly trained before allowing them privledges. Legally, I can perform open heart surgery but it would be impossible for me to find a hospital that would allow me to do so.